Chamber and committees

Does anyone else want to come in on that? I know that George Edwardes is on the technical steering group.

Does anyone want to come in? I know that George Edwardes and Laura Hughes have had sound issues, but do either of you want to come in on those points? I see that they do not.

My final question is about the Government having changed the threshold from 18m to 11m, which I welcome. Do you think that all buildings should be included in that specific reduction? That is for Peter Drummond.

That is helpful. Does anyone else want to come in?

Thanks for that.

A number of external building elements are specifically excluded from the requirement to use non-combustible materials—examples of that are doors, windows and glazing. Are the witnesses satisfied that those exemptions will not potentially compromise fire safety? If not, what changes would you like to see made to the regulations?

Good morning, and thank you for joining us in the meeting room and online.

I will continue the line of questioning about the regulation preventing the use of

“highly combustible metal composite material”

in external cladding and insulation. Is the definition in the regulations robust enough to ensure that any dangers that are posed by such material have now been reduced as far as is reasonably practicable? Are there other things that we need to look at specifically in terms of metal composite material? Peter—you touched on that, so I will start with you.

If the cabinet secretary is proud of her record, can she explain to Parliament why, after 15 years of SNP Government, we see a record number of children living in unsuitable temporary accommodation in Scotland? What plan does the Scottish Government have to end that practice?

I thank the organisations that have contributed to the work of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I also thank the committee clerks—they are sitting right beside you, Presiding Officer—for the work that they put in to help us with the bill.

As we emerge from the pandemic and the focus, rightly, shifts to economic recovery, it is important that we look to create the most supportive and dynamic business environment. We are all acutely aware of the significant impact that the pandemic has had on businesses, local government and the workload of assessors, and the significant and unsustainable backlog that has built up.

During the pandemic, there have been 49,400 non-domestic rates appeals; in comparison, pre-pandemic, only 5,774 appeals were lodged.

The Scottish Conservatives accept one of the main principles behind the bill, which is

“to extend this rule to cover both net annual value and rateable value and to cover the period back to 2 April 2020, the date on which the Scottish Government amended the definition of ‘material change of circumstances’ to exclude changes in economic circumstances.”

The bill is a sensible measure to update Scotland’s non-domestic rates and appeals system. As we have heard, that has taken place in England and Wales to help mitigate the impact of the pandemic.

The Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee agreed that, because of the level of scrutiny that had already taken place on the order, an extensive programme of evidence taking was not necessary.

We heard a number of views from stakeholders throughout the period, and it is clear that there is a need to look at improving the appeals system in Scotland, which I hope that the minister has taken on board. He has given an assurance that the bill will not remove the right of appeal, and he has confirmed that the Scottish Government intends to

“introduce legislation to extend the disposal deadline by a further year beyond 31 December 2022.”—[Official Report, Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, 15 March 2022; c 4.]

The committee highlighted the absence of a BRIA. It was unusual for no BRIA to accompany the bill, and that is a departure from the Scottish Government’s guidance. As the convener stated, we said in our report that we would welcome assurances from the Scottish Government, which we have now received, that that does not set a precedent for future bills that are introduced to the Parliament.

The UK and Scottish Governments have provided significant support to Scottish businesses throughout the pandemic. The UK Government provided 100 per cent rates relief for all eligible retail, hospitality and leisure properties, which was extended by the Scottish Government. That relief was worth around £10 billion in 2020-21. The Government announced that it would extend the scheme for the first three months of 2021-22 at 100 per cent, followed by a nine-month period of relief at 66 per cent, subject to a cash cap for businesses. Taken together, those support measures for business rates relief have been worth £16 billion for retail, hospitality and leisure properties.

During the committee’s consideration of the bill, I put on record my concerns around the administration of support schemes in some cases and that the schemes have not been transparent. Businesses have reported to MSPs the various winners and losers in accessing the schemes, which the minister has acknowledged. Although every Government was driving hard to get money out to support businesses, we should pause as part of this work and look at how schemes were administered by different local authorities.

Moving forward, it is important to look at how the Scottish Government intends to target additional resources that result from UK Government measures to support businesses, especially when it comes to those that are most in need of support and, in particular, small and medium-sized enterprises.

I turn to the important issue of support for businesses. Scottish National Party ministers offered rates relief of 50 per cent for retail, hospitality and leisure businesses for three months only, and capped that at £27,500. Scottish Conservatives have called for 75 per cent relief for those sectors, and I hope that ministers will take that on board and look at what additional support can be provided to those key sectors of our economy. Scottish retailers have called for ministers to permanently lower business rates in Scotland. Firms from the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors were fully exempt from non-domestic rates during the pandemic until 31 March.

I agree with the point that Fergus Ewing made. We must consider how we can support businesses and ensure that any changes are as straightforward as possible, so that businesses understand any new business rates environment that might emerge in future financial years.

Today’s debate is a welcome opportunity to look to the future. Recovery from the pandemic and driving economic growth must be key priorities for not only the Scottish Government but local authorities. With the council elections less than a week away, it is clear that local councils face significant financial pressures, which will only increase in the coming years.

Our town centres and high streets took a major hit during the pandemic. Local businesses that thrived before Covid have closed or are struggling to pay their bills. Many shops, restaurants, pubs and hotels have still not recovered to pre-pandemic levels of business.

During the pandemic, local councils played a major role in supporting businesses by distributing essential grant funding to them. It is important that, as we continue to recover from the pandemic, local councils remain a key player in driving local growth. They must continue to have the flexibility to support businesses that fall between the cracks of national schemes and to support local partnerships in the rebuilding of local economies across the country.

It is still not clear how consumer habits have shifted because of Covid. There has been a move by many retail outlets towards online shopping and deliveries of goods and food. It is clear that we need more support for businesses to rebuild their customer base and to encourage footfall in our town centres.

The UK and Scottish Governments and our councils need to respond to the short-term and long-term changes in consumer habits. They also need to look towards how they can support any challenges that such changes present, so that businesses that want to continue to have an online presence can get additional support to manage that and set up the necessary information technology projects and teams.

Scottish Conservatives want the Scottish Government to keep business rates relief in place for the coming financial year and to consider introducing longer-term discount schemes for businesses, especially, as I have highlighted, those in traditional town centres and high streets, which have faced such huge pressures. Business Gateway services are essential for business start-ups and scale-ups, which is why Scottish Conservatives have called for and support the further development of the Business Gateway.

Scottish Conservatives will support the bill to update Scotland’s non-domestic rates legislation. We also support the committee’s recommendations. The legislation is similar to what has been put in place in England and Wales, and it is the most straightforward way of sustaining an already overwhelmed appeals system.

I hope that today’s debate gives us the opportunity to put on the record a number of concerns about further support for assessors and some of the other points that were put to the committee during stage 1. I hope that the Scottish Government will address those concerns and that we make sure that businesses across Scotland are now given all the support that they need to come back from what has been an awful time during the pandemic.

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for joining us. I want to kick off with questions on childcare, specifically in relation to barriers to work, because we often get feedback that people cannot go into the world of work due to childcare issues. As it is currently being delivered, to what extent does the policy of providing 1,140 hours of funded childcare maximise the impact on reducing child poverty and people’s ability to realise work opportunities? I ask Marion Davies to answer first. Anyone else who wants to come in should put an R in the chat function.

Thank you.