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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 September 2025
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Displaying 2213 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for joining us today. I want to follow on from the previous line of questioning. We know how closely intertwined social care and social work are with council services. Specifically in relation to the transfer of local authority workers, what other consequences has the Government not taken into account?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I think that all the committees that are considering the bill are hearing those concerns.

In their submissions, COSLA and Unison described a scenario in which local authorities could be competing against private and third sector providers. At last week’s meeting, we heard about two areas in which co-design—for want of a better word—with the third sector has been useful: the ending homelessness together programme and the Promise. People wish that the Government had approached the national care service with those principles in mind, rather than telling organisations how things will be.

Will you talk about your concerns about competition? Are they purely to do with bidding for contracts in the future, or are they also about workers’ terms and conditions? Tracey Dalling, you have touched on that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

It has been put to this committee and to the Social Justice and Social Security Committee that, following the pandemic, the workforce is tired and feels burned out. Could the creation of a national care service be a distraction from recovery in social care? Can the Government guarantee that we are not about to embark on a further period of disruption and potential underinvestment by local authorities? We have heard that many local authorities are viewing the national care service proposals as a reason not to invest in assets.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

I respect what you have said about some of the outcomes that you would like to be achieved, and I agree with many of those. However, can you understand the concerns of someone who is working as a carer today about the fact that you are suggesting that their employer will be the local care board, which does not currently exist, about the disruption that that could present and about the uncertainty around their pension being transferred?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

We will be speaking to the minister after this session. What would your message to him be? Perhaps we will start with Gerry Cornes on my final devil’s advocate question.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2022

Miles Briggs

That is a good point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Does anyone else want to come in on that point?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Miles Briggs

If no one else wants to come in on that point, I will move on to look at specific assumptions in the financial memorandum. It is assumed that 10 per cent of adult carers will be able to access short breaks and that an additional 14 per cent will use easy access support. That is less than 25 per cent of people potentially taking the entitlement for a short break. Why do you think such a low level of demand has been predicted?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Miles Briggs

Does anyone else want to come in?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 November 2022

Miles Briggs

My final question is about the financial memorandum. The issue of pensions liabilities and insurance for staff was also raised at the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. Given that we are talking about 75,000 people being transferred from all 32 local authorities to a national care service, has there been any discussion about what that will look like from the point of view of the potential cost and liability, which, currently, has not been outlined by the Government?