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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 4875 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

I totally agree with you. One of the things that the report mentions is transparency. We know that two of the vessels are going to cost £111 million. I would like to know, for example, whether you have addressed the issue of staged payments. Have you addressed all the other points that were made in the RECC report? When we ask for that information, we are told that is commercially sensitive, so we cannot have it. Therefore, it is very difficult for people to scrutinise the process and understand whether there has been change.

Maybe we should leave that issue there, but I would say that looking forward is about learning from history so that you do not repeat the same mistake.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

We now move to questions from Mark Ruskell.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

That might become quite relevant when we come to our report. We might have to prompt you, as we get to concluding the report, for any advice that you can give us.

Mark Ruskell wanted to ask some questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you for clarifying.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you very much. I point out to members that, if they want to put a question directly to an individual, it is absolutely appropriate for them to do so. If one of the witnesses wants to come in, they should indicate so with their hand and I will bring them in as best I can. I want the evidence session to be as free flowing as possible, and I want to allow members to ask questions of the people who they think are most appropriate to answer them. I am not overriding Morag McNeill; I am just giving committee members some guidance.

If I start wagging my pen at you—which is a Christine Grahame trick—it means that I want you to try to keep your answers a little shorter, on the basis that we have quite a lot of questions to ask. My pen has never flown out of my fingers when I have been wagging it before, but that will be my indication rather than telling people to stop talking, which I do not think is helpful.

The first questions come from the deputy convener, Fiona Hyslop.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Thank you for your submission of 21 February on decarbonising Scotland’s ferries on the route to net zero, which was useful. Do you believe that the Scottish Government’s ferry services can be carbon neutral by 2045, particularly in light of the fact that CMAL is purchasing four marine-oil-powered vessels, with an expected lifespan of 30 years, and on the basis that we heard from Norway that you cannot change fuels midway through a vessel’s life? Norway’s opinion is that if a vessel is built for a particular fuel, that is what you are left with.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

So will you be commissioning more LNG ships?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

That is probably a good place to leave it.

We thank you and your officials very much for giving evidence, minister. I will briefly suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses.

12:02 Meeting suspended.  

12:05 On resuming—  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

Just to remind you, under “Decision-making structure”, about which the report makes recommendations, it talks about

“a cluttered decision-making landscape that lacks transparency ... varying degrees of failure”

and

“CMAL ... and Transport Scotland”

failing

“to discharge their respective responsibilities competently and effectively.”

That is fairly damning.

I want to find out whether you are comfortable with the process. Let me see whether I can do this by interpreting the jargon. The end user—the passenger—feeds into the service provider, which is the ferry operator, which feeds into the asset provider, which is CMAL, which feeds into the Government through Transport Scotland: you have told us that the two are the same. Transport Scotland feeds back to CMAL, which then stipulates what the ferry contract is going to be, as far as building the ship is concerned.

That is hardly working together. Are you comfortable with that process?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Ferry Services Inquiry

Meeting date: 28 February 2023

Edward Mountain

We will go back to Monica Lennon for another question.