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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 September 2025
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Displaying 2307 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Thank you. We will move to Pam Duncan-Glancy. If Andrew Bradshaw wants to come in to respond to any points, he should just put his hand up and we will try to catch him that way.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Welcome back, members, and welcome to our second panel of witnesses. We have Phil Thompson, the development manager at Ardroy Outdoor Education Centre; Nick March from the Association of Heads of Outdoor Education Centres Scotland; Freda Fallon, the development manager for Scotland at the Outward Bound Trust; and Jamie Miller, the chief executive at Scottish Outdoor Education Centres. I welcome you all to the committee. As you know, this is part of our stage 1 deliberations on Liz Smith’s bill.

I understand that you were all watching the earlier evidence session. Do you have any thoughts on what you heard from some of the representatives in relation to the teaching profession and local authorities? Also, can you tell us about your own individual organisations and the importance of the work that you are doing across Scotland?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

We are keen to hear the views of the young people you work with. The union representative in the previous session portrayed this period as quite a difficult time for teachers in general, which I think that we all agree with, but we heard phrases such as, “This could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back,” and so on, in terms of pay negotiations, for example. What do you hear back from teachers? Mr March has just read out a helpful comment from one teacher. More generally, what do the teachers say when they are with you, when they are preparing to be with you and afterwards? What is the feedback that you get from teachers in particular?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Thank you. With a panel of four witnesses, we will have to keep things moving. I think that covers that area very well, so we will move on now.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Last week, we heard that, potentially, the benefits plateau after about five days. Do you think that the benefits do not continue to increase if you go much beyond that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

I suppose the question that I am asking is: has the number increased?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

I am referring to the number of pupils that you cannot take for safety reasons.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Good. On behalf of the committee, I thank you all for your evidence. Phil Thompson said at the start that we have not heard many voices of young people so far. I think that you have been able to articulate those voices in your testimonies, whether that is through the words of Nevis or with the accounts of what parents and teachers have said. It has been extremely useful to get that on the record, because we will be able to use it in our considerations. We have, however, had a number of submissions from young people to our call for evidence—in fact, a higher number than we have received for most of the other calls for evidence that we have put out. What you have said today matches what we have already heard from young people, who are very impressed with what they receive when they go to outdoor education centres. Thank you very much for your time and your evidence.

12:09 Meeting continued in private until 12:40.  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

Towards the end of our earlier evidence session, Tara Lillis talked about the increase in violence in schools and particularly difficult behaviour. Are there students who you refuse to take or currently cannot take because of issues that they have in the classroom? We have spoken about ASN and disabilities, but what about violent pupils?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Douglas Ross

On that point from Matthew Sweeney, if legislating for the provision of residential outdoor education is not the solution, nothing else is coming forward. You are saying that such provision is not the top priority because it might not be the single measure that could improve attainment, but could that money go to anything else that would improve attainment?