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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 2278 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

We have had a bit of a discussion around finance. Continuing with that theme, I note that page 38 of the Gillies report states that a number of individuals, including Mr Fotheringham and Dr McGeorge,

“appeared to operate in isolation of facts”.

Did you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Is Gillies wrong, then, in that assumption?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

But Gillies is very clear that those opportunities were not difficult to spot. It sounds as though you were asleep at the wheel. Did you enjoy the title of chair of the court while not being particularly keen to do the work?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

You say that you engaged in a “curious way”. Where was your curiosity when all this was going on and you did not intervene?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

The report says:

“P9, P10 and P11 management accounts (April, May and June 2024) were produced in draft but never finalised into papers that reached UEG.”

Surely members were asking you where that information was and why they were not getting it. The report also says, on page 33:

“It is not clear why this happened or who decided that these papers would not be provided.”

You said that you were curious and wanted to drill down. Did you find out?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

Mr Fotheringham, your former colleague is saying that it is your fault. How do you respond?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

I will bring in Joe FitzPatrick—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

I do not think that we have cleared any of that up, but I will bring in some other colleagues at the moment, starting with Pam Duncan-Glancy.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

I want to come back to and test the covenant point a bit further later. Mr Fotheringham and Dr McGeorge, in response to Mr Rennie’s initial questions, you spoke about underrecruitment being the big issue. That challenges the Gillies report’s findings, because Professor Gillies is very clear that the issue was the excessive spending over a significant period.

Are you challenging the report or do you accept that the issue was not underrecruitment, which many universities struggled with, but your decisions to continue spending at significant rates and increase staffing levels even though student numbers were going down? Gillies is right, and what you are saying this morning is not correct, Mr Fotheringham.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

University of Dundee

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Douglas Ross

That was clearly not the case, because you have been bailed out to the tune of tens of millions of pounds of public money. I do not get an impression from you that you think that you did particularly badly. There is an impression that you could have done better, but you are quite complacent.