Chamber and committees

Yes. I said that there are other measures that determine economic progress. However, growth is the primary concern in any economy because it provides the facility to do other things that are important and to enable measures that can reduce some of the inequalities in our society.

It does not matter which business—be it small, medium or large—we talk to, which economic forecaster or public policy unit we listen to or which financial services we speak to: they unanimously tell us that economic growth is the most important thing post-pandemic. When it comes to the Greens, I am afraid that it really is the Greens against the business world.

I wonder where the Scottish National Party is coming from on that, given that, not long ago, the party agreed with the business world. At the SNP conference, Nicola Sturgeon said:

“Our government’s ... priority is economic growth ... we are doing everything we can to get the economy growing again.”

When John Swinney, as finance secretary and Deputy First Minister, gave evidence to the Scottish Affairs Committee, he explained why the Scottish Government’s priority was to maximise investment and support economic growth. Earlier this year, in reaction to concerns that Sir Tom Hunter raised about the SNP’s approach to business, Kate Forbes said:

“That is why the Government is absolutely committed to being pro-prosperity, pro-growth and pro-business”.—[Official Report, 2 June 2021; c 17.]

I do not disagree with any of those three senior SNP ministers when they make such comments, because they are right about the importance of growth. Why on earth would they go into coalition with a party that is fundamentally opposed to that as a priority? That tension will dominate the coalition for however long it lasts.

Kate Forbes said at committee on 31 August that she would like to build a 10-year economic strategy, and she repeated that today. She also said that that cannot happen in full because she does not have the necessary funds from the UK Government to address exogenous shocks to the economy, nor does she have sufficient information about the timescales that will underpin how Scotland will benefit from various UK Government projects such as the shared prosperity, levelling up and community renewal funds.

On that point, I think that there will be welcome news in the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s next budget and details of the funds will emerge. However, when Kate Forbes complains about the UK Government not providing the necessary funds to assist with the critical economic challenges that lie ahead, I really wonder how she thinks that the Scottish Government would have been in a position to fund the Covid recovery without the massive injection of UK cash, especially in terms of furlough and the huge assistance that is now to be provided via the health and social care plan.

I entirely agree with the points that Mr Rennie has just raised. Does he agree—I think he probably does, given what he said in the previous session—that there is a lot to be said for improving the scrutiny process in the Parliament for public procurement and how money is spent? We know far too little about who owes what and who owns what.

As we engage in this debate about the programme for government, it behoves us all, once again, to recognise and understand that the expectation from the public, as was shown clearly yesterday, is that the Parliament’s primary focus will be on economic recovery from the pandemic. In the same context, I have no doubt whatever that business and industry want certainty, stability and a long-term strategy from Government that will protect jobs, people’s real disposable incomes and incentives for investment and economic growth.

On that question of growth, given all the debate last week about the Green Party’s approach, I say this: it is true that there are several important measures when it comes to assessing the progress of any economy, and it is true that gross domestic product and gross national product are incomplete measures, notably because they omit variables such as externalities, but that does not take away from the fact that GDP and GNP remain the most important internationally recognised economic measures, precisely because they measure the net output or value added of an economy in terms of the goods and services that are purchased with money. They will, therefore, always be an extremely good guide to the areas of the economy that are working well in terms of securing employment, improving productivity and creating new investment, all of which helps to determine real disposable income. If we do not have that strong economic growth, we all suffer. Common sense surely tells us that.

I am not going to take the intervention, Presiding Officer, because I really cannot believe that Mr McKee asked that question. It is abundantly clear—[Interruption.] No, I will not, Mr McKee.

Let us look to Professor Mark Blyth, who is, I believe, one of the Scottish Government’s top advisers and an independence supporter. He warns that the upheaval of independence would be “Brexit times 10”, and that view is shared by many in the Scottish business community and, indeed, among the public.

On the Conservatives’ side of the chamber, we are very clear in our minds that the economy brief must have as its primary focus policies that will support enterprise—especially by assisting small-scale business and new start-ups—and drive innovation and sustainable infrastructures. That is particularly true for the small business sector. We should remember that many of our small businesses are those that help our local communities most of all, and that small businesses provide 43 per cent of private sector jobs. Those firms have faced a disproportionate Brexit burden and disproportionate debt—a point that was made strongly to me and Murdo Fraser when we met the Federation of Small Businesses a few days ago.

We support the small business recovery plan, including the business rates relief aspects, because it is clear that the current system of taxing non-domestic property does not work for too many businesses. [Interruption.] I will not take an intervention, if the member does not mind.

Physical retailers find themselves paying higher taxes than their competitors despite the fact that they support more local jobs. At the Finance and Public Administration Committee yesterday, an interesting comment was made by Kevin Robertson of the Scottish Property Federation, who argued that legislative change might be needed to make the tax system more modern and efficient.

We then have all the skills issues. Sandy Begbie and Scottish Financial Enterprise have made it clear that we need better pathways for apprenticeships that take advantage of the huge global fintech market, technology hubs and net zero objectives. They are also clear about the need for connectivity and collaboration among firms in Scotland, much better links between governments and the private sector, and the development of far more digital skills.

I will finish with the very important point that there is huge demand among businesses and the public for better value for money in public services. The Scottish Government has presided over disasters such as the ferries and Burntisland Fabrications, to name just two projects that have brought into serious question transparency and accountability when it comes to public money.

It is interesting, too, that the Auditor General is making some strong criticisms of the gap between Scottish Government commitments and its delivery, and parliamentary committees have in some cases concluded that there has been a catastrophic failure in the management of public money in procurement. Members have heard me speak about transparency several times in the chamber. I hope that the new parliamentary session will do a lot to improve transparency, accountability and the scrutiny of financial decision making.

I am absolutely clear, Presiding Officer, that there should be one focus and one focus alone, and that should be economic recovery.

Is Mr McKee really saying that we would have had the same benefit without the UK of—[Interruption.] Really? You are actually claiming—

Do you have particular recommendations on home schooling and making that link?

That is a very helpful answer.

The issue of accountability and scrutiny in the tax-and-spend system is obviously a prime consideration for the committee. To its credit, the Finance and Constitution Committee tried hard during the previous session of Parliament to ensure that there is good-quality scrutiny of the decisions that are made in Parliament.

What do we have to do to improve on the scrutiny and accountability of the tax and spend system? Other committees in the Parliament have investigated several aspects of it and have come down on the side that, in some cases, gross mismanagement of procurement and so on had taken place, which does not help the public’s acceptance of the tax system that exists. Do you have any suggestions about what we could you do to improve its accountability? I see that Joanne is nodding.

There is the question of the renegotiation of the fiscal framework, which has to take place shortly. It has been put to us that there are elements, particularly some of the technical aspects, of the fiscal framework that might make cohesion between the two Governments difficult. I know that you will not advise on policy, but do you have any comments on any of the technical difficulties of the existing fiscal framework, which runs from 2016 until now?

Mr Robertson, I was interested in your comment to the convener about your concern about contracts between tenants and the people who rent out properties. You said that some of the legislative changes that have taken place have not been particularly helpful. Will you expand on what you meant by that?