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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 May 2025
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Displaying 2702 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

It is mainly public sector bodies that are involved.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

A number of other areas that are covered in the report also face potential challenges. Exhibit 3 shows them quite starkly, and the report says:

“By the end of 2028/29, the Scottish Fiscal Commission expects the Scottish Government will spend £1.5 billion more on social security than it receives from the UK Government.”

Paragraph 16 says:

“The spending pressures the Scottish Government and the wider devolved public sector face are expected to worsen in the long term. The Scottish Fiscal Commission has projected that total spending on devolved public services would increase by 123 per cent in today’s prices to £120 billion by 2072/73”.

The Auditor General is really stretching things there; I am not sure how he can look that far ahead, but that is what the report says. Health is also covered. That faces similar challenges. Do you accept that those challenges exist across a whole range of spending?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

But we do not have an accurate figure.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Thank you.

I am now going to ask you about ScotWind; other members might have questions about it, too. I do not know whether you have seen the letter that the Auditor General wrote to the committee on 18 December, but I will quote from it. He says:

“It is not clear from our papers how the ScotWind monies have been used in each of these financial years and whether this is consistent with the earlier intentions, expressed throughout 2022, for this money to be invested in addressing the climate and biodiversity crises.”

What is your response to that?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

It would be useful if you could give us that written consolidation.

It is fair to say that some of the ScotWind money went to fund pay deals. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

I am going to ask you about net zero next. I will read paragraph 18 of the Auditor General’s report to you:

“The Scottish Government’s target of achieving net zero by 2045 is also placing pressure on its finances, and will continue to do so ... The Scottish Fiscal Commission estimates that, in order to meet its climate objectives, the Scottish Government will need to invest an average of £1.14 billion of additional capital spending annually until 2049/50. However, the Scottish Fiscal Commission has also forecast that the capital funding that the Scottish Government receives will have fallen by 20 per cent in real terms by 2028/29. This will place significant pressure on other areas of capital spending.”

Do you accept that analysis?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

It seems a pretty obvious approach, though, does it not? If you are going to reduce spending, you might as well look at the impact of doing so. I am surprised that it has not been done before.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

You accept, therefore, the potential risk that bringing in the levy could mean a loss of trade, if you like, for parts of Scotland.

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Will you give us a bit more detail on the invest to save fund that you mentioned?

Public Audit Committee

“Fiscal sustainability and public reform in Scotland”

Meeting date: 5 March 2025

Graham Simpson

Yes—thanks a lot, convener. Permanent secretary, you have mentioned child poverty a few times. I draw your attention to a correction that the First Minister had to make to an answer that he gave to the Parliament on 27 February, on the Scottish child payment. In his original answer, he said:

“the Scottish child payment ... is helping to lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty.”—[Official Report, 27 February 2025; c 18.]

In his correction, he says that it is

“estimated”

to be

“helping to keep 100,000 children out of relative poverty”.—[Official Report, 27 February 2025; c 121.]

That is an estimate, and the term has gone from “poverty” to “relative poverty”. Is it fair to say that we do not actually know how many children have been helped?