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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 2049 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

Can I push you on that, Mr Russell? Cross-compliance is not direct compliance. Some family concerns can be very large companies and they might consider it to be cheaper to just pay £5,000 rather than comply fully, which is burdensome.

Could we increase the fine threshold? Could we look at penalties based on turnover of the business?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

Thank you.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

Good morning, and thank you for supporting our evidence session this morning.

I want to ask about land management plans, but can I ask you not to talk yet about compliance, enforcement, monitoring, reporting or the size of holdings, as I will ask questions about those things later.

First, and principally for large holdings that will be required to produce a land management plan, do the provisions adequately articulate meaningful extensive community engagement, including using the land rights and responsibilities statement? I am not sure who is best placed to answer that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. There is a balance to be struck, of course, Mr Russell, which I think is the point that you are making. The bill does not include cumulative holdings. A landowner could have four concerns each of 2,000 hectares—a massive operation that would not be covered by this bill. Should the bill consider cumulative holdings, Mr Russell?

09:45  

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

I am sorry to focus on you, Emma, but this is a line of questioning that I was hoping to pursue. Land management plans would have to take cognisance of the land rights and responsibilities statement, but they would not have to follow it. I understand that they will have to have regard for the land rights and responsibilities statement, but that it has no statutory underpinning and will be voluntary. What is your view on that? If any of the other witnesses have different views, it would be good to get them on the record, too.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

I am new to this, Hamish, and you are not, and I am trying to scrutinise the bill. Are there examples where that happens elsewhere in the world and has the Land Commission thought about what a model in Scotland could look like?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

I hope you will not mind me pushing you a bit further, Mr Russell, but I did not ask about cross-compliance. I understand cross-compliance. I asked about direct compliance and whether for some businesses, a £5,000 fine just would not cut it. Is it the view of the Land Commission that the £5,000 fine should be reviewed?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. Convener, you will be relieved to hear this is my final question—I know that other members need to get in and that you want to move on the lines of questioning.

Some concerns have been raised about the reporting process and it has been suggested that we should widen the scope of who can report and that investigations should be more robust. I must admit that I am not across the detail of this particular area, but I would be very keen to have witnesses to put on record their thoughts to better inform our consideration of this legislation.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful.

I move on to penalties for non-compliance. Mr Russell said at the start that it is nice to have land management plans. Hopefully landowners will have consulted meaningfully and effectively with communities and other relevant interested groups so that the plan is sensible, practical and sustainable for the land, the people on it and all those who benefit from that land. However, if a plan is not implemented in practice, it is irrelevant. I understand that there are fines of up to £5,000 for not producing a plan but that, within the bill, there is no consequence for non-compliance. Is that your understanding, Mr Russell? Do we have to look at that again?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 11 June 2024

Bob Doris

I asked you not to go there because I am definitely going to go there. I just wanted to break the questions up a bit.

The Land Commission initially considered that land areas from 1,000 hectares up to about 3,000 hectares should be within the scope of land management plans—and beyond 3,000 hectares of course—but the Government has opted for 3,000 hectares.

Convener, can I check that people can still hear me? My screen has gone blank.