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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 December 2025
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Displaying 2447 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

I understand and appreciate that, but I just wondered whether you had an example of a public body saying that it was working on sustainable development in what it does, whereas your view was that what it was doing was actually contrary to the definition in the bill. I am genuinely not trying to put words in your mouth, but I think that what you are saying is that it is more about pushing the issue up the political agenda than about the definition itself.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

Of course. I am not known for speaking quietly—[Interruption.] There is no need to laugh at that, Mr Stewart, thank you very much.

It was pointed out to me that the policy memorandum refers to the definition of “sustainable development” as an overarching definition. I am wondering what that would apply to. Would it apply to individual public bodies, which would have to have due regard to it, or would it apply to all public policy and to every piece of legislation that goes through the Parliament? What is meant by “overarching”?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

We will check the evidence, just in case I have reflected that inaccurately, which is certainly not my intention. We will reflect on your comments.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

I am just smiling, Ms Boyack. I have inadvertently afforded you the opportunity to make a closing statement, which might be no bad thing. I think that the committee will fully take on board all the points that you have made.

It is worth noting that the committee has not had any opportunity to scrutinise what is or is not happening in other countries, so we cannot really make any judgment on whether those initiatives are effective. We were able to take a very small amount of evidence that was indirect, via Scottish organisations, on what is happening in Wales. One thing that came through from that—members of the committee will have their own views on this—is that the new commissioner in Wales focused minds rather than having any particular direct impact. There was a cultural change; that came through quite strongly in evidence. We have to deliberate on that as a committee—it is important to say that. We also have to deliberate on whether the reform of the national performance framework and embedding the national outcomes across public bodies will be an effective way to push all this forward.

However, irrespective of whether the bill progresses, your passionate delivery this morning has already dramatically raised the issues up the agenda in Scotland, and I think that the committee would like to thank you for that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

I am sorry if my memory is failing me, but I think that the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland’s office said that it did not agree with the definition of wellbeing. I think that I have got that right. How would you reflect on that?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

I genuinely was not suggesting anything, Sarah. I was only reflecting that I think we have heard evidence that a rigid definition of wellbeing might not be desirable. I will correct the record if I am getting wrong what the office of the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland said, but is the concern about the definition valid?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

You have said several times, understandably, that the proposal is not all about investigations but is also about the softer powers and influence that a commissioner could have. The bill allows the commissioner to

“take such steps as the Commissioner considers appropriate”

when seeking to resolve a matter without recourse to an investigation. What kinds of steps were you thinking about?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

Do you expect a new commissioner to be able to keep a watching eye on all 131 public bodies?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

That was helpful.

You have been following and, indeed, participating in the committee’s evidence-taking sessions, so none of the questions that we will ask is likely to be surprising. I would suggest that, whether we are talking about a commissioner or a new person within an existing commissioner’s office, one way of dealing with some of the bureaucracy around this might be to embed a new commissioner, or an individual with lead responsibility for all of this, within an existing commissioner’s office to make the process much more efficient. I am thinking, for example, of the land reform legislation that has just been passed, in which will see the land and communities commissioner being embedded in the Scottish Land Commission. Have you given any thought to that sort of approach?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Bob Doris

Our next item of business is the final stage 1 evidence session on the Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Sarah Boyack MSP, who is the member in charge of the bill; Sean Taheny and Roz Thomson, who are from the non-Government bills unit; and Caroline Mair, who is a solicitor from legal services at the Scottish Parliament. Thank you all for joining us.

I invite Sarah Boyack to make some brief opening remarks.