The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 72 contributions
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
I will take you at the end if we have time.
Alex, you had bid for a supplementary question, but you are next up anyway. Can you keep your question relatively tight so that other members can get in, please?
12:15
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
I will bring in Stephen Boyle first, because I realise that he has other commitments, which he will have to head off to meet. I want to maximise his opportunity to put some comments on the record.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
I suspect that you will have to leave now—and I know that we will have a chance to have a meeting offline as well—but one of the things that members really wanted to ask was whether your office has any suggestions about how to make our scrutiny as effective and strategic as possible. We would greatly appreciate a discussion about that.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
That is helpful. Our time with you is up, but I have one little note written down. At the moment, the minister is reporting to the Parliament twice a year on public service reform. It seems that that will have to be more frequent, given the pace of change. Do you have sympathy with that?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
Thanks for putting that on the record. Claire McRae, I imagine that the Scottish Government must have a series of financial assumptions or ranges for financial savings that could be landed with public service reform, but those have not been shared in the public domain, so would it be helpful to get more of that data into the public domain?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
Good morning again, everyone. We now move back into public session for agenda item 4, which is an evidence session on delivering public service reform.
I welcome to the meeting Stephen Boyd, director of the Institute for Public Policy Research Scotland; Stephen Boyle, Auditor General for Scotland; and Dr Claire MacRae, senior lecturer in public policy at the University of Glasgow. I thank all three of you for supporting our scrutiny work here this morning. If anyone wishes to make some opening remarks, they are more than welcome to do so.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
That is helpful as a scene setter. The word “scale” has come up consistently. The scale of the fire service and Police Scotland reform aside—perhaps Scotland’s colleges would be another example—scalability has been a challenge and, if it takes place, moving from 14 health boards to two health boards is quite a significant reform. It also sits alongside Stephen Boyle’s report on the state of the NHS, about headline policy aspirations not always matching delivery on the ground.
Mr Boyle, I think that it was in your December 2025 report that you said that there was poor evidence of a shift from acute into community care and treatment. The programme for government included increasing the number of hospital at home beds to 10,000, but at the same time, the NHS will have to move from 14 to two health boards. Is it possible to do the organisational structural change, which is bureaucratic in some respects—changing from 14 to two health boards—at the same time as doing the on-the-ground work that needs to be done to shift moneys and reform from acute into community care? Do you have any confidence that that can be done? What are the challenges around that?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
That is helpful. Before I bring in other witnesses, I will just roll in one final question, because I want to bring colleagues in on this as well. In terms of measuring outcomes, what does success look like?
Committees might want to consider what a successful outcome might look like. If we take health as an example, one measure of success might be an organisation having 8 per cent fewer senior managers and saving £X million. However, from their perspective, communities might consider success to be community-based and preventative interventions that are delivered locally and are attentive to their needs. We therefore need clarity from the Government on how both those outcomes will be measured. One should not take priority over the other. In particular, the outcomes in relation to financial savings and organisational sustainability should not take precedence over the kind of healthcare system that we want.
11:45
What outcomes would you like to be measured as the reforms progress? This committee will be keen to ask those questions not only in relation to the NHS, but in relation to local government, environmental services and wherever else reforms are under way. What outcomes of community benefit should we be measuring?
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
That is helpful. I think that Murdo Fraser wants to come in at this point.
Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 3 September 2026
Bob Doris
You are so well mannered.