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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 21 September 2026
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Displaying 72 contributions

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Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session on delivering public service reform. I welcome to the meeting Ivan McKee, Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Reform, who is accompanied today by three Scottish Government officials: Gabrielle Cahen, team leader, public service reform strategy and evidence; Ruth Meyer, head, public service reform strategy and governance unit; and Simon Mair, deputy director, place-based service change and reform. I thank you all for supporting our scrutiny this morning.

Cabinet secretary, we look forward to working constructively with you on public service reform and to being a critical friend to you. We will challenge, where appropriate, but constructiveness will be our aim as a committee as we move forward.

I understand that you have some opening remarks to make to the committee.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

We will have a brief supplementary question from Joe Fagan, as other colleagues want to come in.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

I am stretching my memory on the success of the previous fund, but it is worth checking whether we can learn the lessons of the past.

Can you say anything about the scope of the bill that the committee will have to scrutinise and the consultation process on it?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

Committees tend to scrutinise and count what we can see. It is hard to scrutinise what we cannot see—

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

I would imagine that that would have to be a focused bill. I do not know whether moving from 14 to two health boards would require statutory underpinning. To illustrate the point, though, let us pretend that it would. There could be an amendment lodged in the Parliament saying that there should be five health boards, which, if agreed to, would result in the proposal becoming messy, unstrategic, unfocused and unworkable. I picked that as an example to ask what the scope would be for the Parliament to shape any legislation as it is presented to the Parliament.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

Would this committee be able to see that modelling work?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

If I look at the March 2026 figures for the NHS, I see that there are 29,826 whole-time equivalent staff in the administrative classification in the NHS. I should point out that they all do vital jobs. Restructuring might happen, and there might be fewer of them going forward as a result of health board measures, but I do not diminish the importance of the jobs that they currently do.

So, is that the baseline that we are working from for admin workers in the NHS—29,826?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

Okay, and that figure went up by 0.6 per cent in the past year. How much do you expect it to fall by in the next three years?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

Can you be brief, please?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Bob Doris

I think that I will leave it at that, cabinet secretary. I will bring in Joe Fagan.