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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 July 2025
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Displaying 2048 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change Governance Stocktake

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Bob Doris

Thank you, convener.

This has been an interesting evidence session, and I have been listening carefully. Mr Boyle, you mentioned potential issues in relation to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. I was not going to follow up on that, but you made an interesting point about the fact that nations and regions are going at different paces, which might lead to what some might call divergence and others might call taking leadership in relation to tackling some of the issues that we face. It would be helpful if you could place on the record your reflections on the potential risks in that regard, given that that act now exists.

I might not get a chance to come back in, so I will ask another question, which concerns certainty about the capital expenditure that is required in the long term. In other committees, we always talk about multiyear budgets and certainty in investment. If nations and regions go at different paces and Westminster sets different capital budgets, with relevant Barnett consequentials, is that a significant risk to delivering on net zero ambitions?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Bob Doris

I just want to check whether there are any barriers that have to be overcome to allow some of that to happen. For example, I tap on and tap off quite happily using First Glasgow. I am not a driver, so I am on 20-plus buses a week. There are capped daily and weekly fares, but there is no interoperability with other bus services in the city. The technology is there, but the interoperability is not. Is there a role for the national board to enable that? That would be required for, say, franchising, to enable profit-sharing.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful, more for my understanding than to scrutinise you in your role as cabinet secretary.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

Given that Mr Shaw has set out priorities for using the greater flexibility in the bill and the provision for a stand-alone benefit, I will direct my question to him.

The Scottish child payment is not about providing more money; it is about providing greater flexibilities, which might require more money. Will you say a little bit more about the cliff edge, not just in relation to universal credit but in relation to better-off calculations for people? They might lose their entitlement to universal credit because they increase their hours of work or get into full-time employment. Does that mean a hard landing for some families, and is there a disincentive for some people to go into work because there is no taper or roll-on in relation to Scottish child payment levels as folk get employment or go into full-time employment?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

—and there is an issue of whether a threshold would be in the bill or whether the bill would provide the power for an income threshold to be set at a later date, on the basis that secondary legislation could amend the income threshold, as appropriate. However, I am conscious that any agreed income threshold might be a bit arbitrary. There are other things that might be happening in an individual’s life that must also be taken into account. Are you wedded to an income threshold? If so, should that be in the bill? Might more meaningful guidance also be a way round that situation?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. Thank you.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

It is the legislative basis that we are scrutinising rather than the policy positions once that legislative basis has been changed, but that is very helpful.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

This section of questioning is about where the liability for overpayments sits. The bill will bring in the potential for client representatives to be liable for overpayments. The intention of the provision on liability is that the person who benefits from an overpayment will be liable for it, regardless of whether that person is a representative of the claimant or the individual who has the right to the underlying claim in the first place. Has the Government got the balance right in its framing of the provision? Are there alternatives that the witnesses might want to suggest? Erica Young is twitching her head. Is that an indication that you wish to speak?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

Okay. I think that I will be looking back over the Official Report and digesting that information. We will see what the Government says in response. I will move on.

Ms Young, your organisation spoke about an income threshold in relation to debt recovery. Provisions in the bill would require Social Security Scotland to look at the financial circumstances of each individual where liability has been determined, any appeals process has been exhausted and it is clear that there has been an overpayment. Why should there be an income threshold?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Bob Doris

I appreciate your concerns.

Ms Young, you said that there are no fleshed-out criteria by which the ability to pay or what a reasonable rate would look like would be determined. One option could be to provide decent guidance on that, rather than to provide an income threshold. I suspect that Ms Young would still want an income threshold. However, I ask about guidance because income thresholds could change over time—