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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 October 2025
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Displaying 2218 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Who is that question for, Jeremy?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I apologise—it is just that that might enable us to end the meeting at the appropriate time.

Jeremy Balfour, I believe that you are going to lead on the next theme.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I apologise for waiting until the very end to ask this question, which is about what you would ask for if more money became available. Chris Birt might remember that I asked a similar question last year.

The Scottish Government has invested £1.3 billion in positive policy initiatives, such as the Scottish child payment and adult disability payments, for the purpose of mitigation. That additional investment is now locked into the system. If I said, “I have just found £100 million! Where did that come from?”, would you use it to take a cash-first approach? Would you provide other services? Childcare was mentioned, for example. How would you direct the money? What would your priorities be?

I know that you want to say all of the above, but that is not how it works. I know that such questions are for politicians, but you are here today, so what would your main ask be? Ask one thing, if possible.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Agenda item 3 is the committee’s second evidence session on pre-budget scrutiny. I welcome our witnesses. In the room, we are joined by Chris Birt, associate director for Scotland, Joseph Rowntree Foundation; Stephen Sinclair, chair, Poverty and Inequality Commission; and Emma Jackson, head of social justice, Citizens Advice Scotland. Edel Harris OBE, chair of the independent review of adult disability payments, joins us online. Thank you all for the support that you will give us this morning with our budget scrutiny.

A significant amount of money has been invested in social security in Scotland, and the budget is dramatically increasing. However, that is happening in a controlled fashion, if you like, as a result of policy intentions. For example, there will be an additional £489 million for the Scottish child payment next year, and disability benefits payments will be £452 million above the block grant adjustment. There will also be an additional £123 million for carers allowance, £100 million for mitigating United Kingdom policies in relation to discretionary housing payments, and spend of £155 million on the forthcoming mitigation of the two-child benefit cap.

We can quickly see how that all stacks up to a huge amount more money than the block grant adjustment. Although that significant investment is welcome, we must have the evidence to show that it is having the impact that we want it to have. I ask the witnesses to say—perhaps by referring to one or another of those measures—where the evidence is that the additional investment is having the impact that we would like to see. Where the evidence is not there, does that mean that there is a gap and that we need to collect data, or do we have to do something else? There is quite a lot in that question to start off our evidence session.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

That is very helpful.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Does the spend have a positive impact? Yes. Is it a massive investment? Yes. However, is it value for money? That is the next question that we have to ask. It is clear that spending huge amounts of money to tackle child poverty and support disabled people and carers will have a positive impact, but we have to ask whether it is value for money. If the policy intent is to tackle poverty and support disabled people and carers, is that suite of measures good value for money?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Thanks. I will bring in Jeremy Balfour to ask some supplementary questions, but it might be reasonable, when he asks his questions, if he brings in Edel Harris to comment on some of this, given the previous comments that we have had.

Over to you, Jeremy.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I am deferring to you, Jeremy, if you want to come back in.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

Do you mind if we move on, Alexander?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Bob Doris

I sometimes feel that the heft of the Scottish child payment is so significant that other investments somehow become the poor relations when it comes to scrutiny and assessment of value for money. It is not that I do not want to hear more about the Scottish child payment, but I would quite like to hear more about whether other investments are value for money.