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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 376 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

There will be a cost to all that. The Presiding Officer has already indicated that a financial memorandum would be required if this were to proceed into law so, yes, there will be costs throughout. If there is to be an education campaign—for want of a better term—that is a cost, and we will have to consider it.

You made the point that the additional member system is a facet of our electoral system here. In 1999, that was new, but people are largely used to it now and understand that they have two ballots to cast at the Scottish Parliament election. In 2007, we introduced the single transferable vote for elections to local authorities; I think that people are becoming used to that and understand the process of ranking candidates. What I am speaking to is that people are well used to becoming acquainted with developments in our electoral system.

I absolutely concede that, when this is introduced and if and when a specific petition comes in—although we all hope that it will not be required—part of the process must be about ensuring that people understand how it works precisely. By and large—and rightly—that work must be done through an external agency in the guise of the Electoral Commission rather than put in the hands of Government or Parliament, which might be perceived as being less independent.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That is a question for the Parliament. That goes back to my perspective, which I think most of us would agree with, that members are still entitled to a degree of privacy in their personal lives, provided that the matter concerned does not relate to their public conduct and their work in the Parliament. The fact that we are publicly elected representatives does not completely do away with that right.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I draw members’ attention to paragraphs 26 to 28 of the memorandum that we sent to the committee. The process in this regard becomes a little complicated. There might be a way to deal with that. However, in effect, as drafted, the criminal offence ground for a recall petition, which is set out in section 3, is triggered when an MSP receives any sentence of imprisonment or detention for not less than six months, including suspended sentences where the MSP is not imprisoned immediately, which, of course, might mean that they are not imprisoned at all. By contrast, if someone is sentenced for a shorter period than six months, they are then open to the process of recall, so there seems to be inconsistency.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

My only observation is that, if you are on remand, you have not yet been convicted.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

It is a good question, but it is not one that I have given any thought to.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That is right, and I am pretty sure that questions about whether we have thought about increased costs in the future are put to the Government on a regular basis. Primarily, it is issues around future costs that drive our perspective on the financial memorandum.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

It would not fall on the local authority, but it would still fall on the public purse. It would mean that resource would have to be diverted from elsewhere.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I cannot give a specific answer to that. There is often cynicism about this approach, but the preference is not to have a prescribed period after royal assent for a bill to be implemented, to take account of eventualities. Once the Parliament has legislated for something, the expectation is we get on with it and implement it as soon as possible, so that would be Government’s commitment to the Parliament.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

First, I reassure Mr Simpson that we will absolutely continue to engage with him on the bill. He knows that we had very good engagement on the Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Act 2025 and I assure him that I am committed to continuing that.

We do not have a view on the recall question. I have the memorandum in front of me, and I am not going to make the committee wait while I read it in detail, but my recollection is that I do not think that we posed a question beyond the cost implication. It is an open question for the committee and the Parliament to grapple with. We do not have a specific view on the merits, or otherwise, of whether there it should be a one-stage process or a two-stage process.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I think so. My first observation is that we are required to make regulations in relation to MPs and peers, but the responses have been useful. The discussion that I had with the political parties was helpful, and the second round-table discussion was especially useful—it included a clerk from the House of Lords, along with the Electoral Management Board for Scotland, the UK Electoral Commission and a representative from the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, which manages the allowances system for the House of Commons. That meeting was very useful in informing my thinking about practicalities. The process has been helpful.