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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 September 2025
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Displaying 385 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

We do not have an opinion on that per se, but we flag up in our memorandum that it would be useful to explore and understand why those thresholds are proposed in the bill. We understand that they could be justified on the basis of the manner in which regional MSPs are elected, which is calculated and predicated on the number of constituency seats that their party has—if they are standing as a party candidate. We have had independent members elected through the regional system, but I put that to one side for a moment. Most of us are elected to this place on a party ticket, and in that situation the constituencies come into play.

We have observed that there are also subdivisions of constituencies. I am a representative of a constituency that has multiple polling districts. I guess that the question is why a threshold should not have to be reached in a certain number of polling districts as well as the overall threshold being reached. However, we do not have a view on that. We only suggest it as a question that the committee might like to explore.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That would be an area of concern. I go back to the fundamental point that there should be transparency in campaign finances. The Scottish Elections (Representations and Reform) Act 2025, some of which we will discuss under the next agenda item, touches on areas of campaign finance. At the time when the bill that became that act was being considered, I was clear that transparency is the fundamental issue in that regard, but there are also issues about limits on expenditure. It becomes a question of fairness. Although we do not have a view on the specifics, I can safely say that the matter is an area of general concern.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

My understanding is that that does include remote attendance, although I think that it can differ from one local authority to the next, because it is not prescribed in law. Therefore, a lot of these things come down to each authority’s standing orders, but that is a whole other debate.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I will answer that question, but, first, I will pick up on your perspective that the bill should contain a non-exhaustive list of legitimate reasons for not physically attending the Parliament. That is a legitimate suggestion. I suppose that my slight caution in relation to that is that any legislation must be interpreted by the courts, and you start to get into the area of why some things were prescribed and other things were not. Again, that is just a question that needs to be considered.

Privacy is an area of concern, and I am not sure that there is any way around that. If a person is not here and it becomes recognised that they are not here and that they have permission to not be here—because they will not then fall foul of the requirement—people will inevitably speculate or ask questions about why that might be. If we are going to embed this requirement as part of the process, I do not know whether there is any way around that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I think that we would need to come back to you on that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Again, it is a question that the committee needs to consider. It is for the committee to determine what it wants to consider, but there is inconsistency on that matter. Whether that is an inconsistency that we say that we will live with or one that has to be thought through and dealt with is for the Parliament to consider.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I struggle to see the circumstances in which any Government responsibility would require a 180-day absence from the Parliament. It is a good question—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Yes, certainly. It comes down to a different assessment of the costs to those that Mr Simpson has suggested in his financial memorandum.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That is a good question. By and large, the public expect public resource to be spent primarily on public services. Equally, however, if there is a public perception that recall should become part of our process, the fact that it comes with costs needs to be recognised. It is a case of getting the balance right.

Questions of parity of process drive certain costs, particularly in the instance of a mechanism that is—how can I best put it?—a two-stage mechanism for regions. That drives increased costs. Whether that should become a factor in determining the process is, ultimately, for the Parliament to consider. The only observation that I can offer right now is that a two-stage process will, of course, cost more than a one-stage process.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I am loth to describe it as a red flag, but I go back to the point that I have just made about a realistic timescale for implementation.