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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 376 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Again, it is a question that the committee needs to consider. It is for the committee to determine what it wants to consider, but there is inconsistency on that matter. Whether that is an inconsistency that we say that we will live with or one that has to be thought through and dealt with is for the Parliament to consider.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I struggle to see the circumstances in which any Government responsibility would require a 180-day absence from the Parliament. It is a good question—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Yes, certainly. It comes down to a different assessment of the costs to those that Mr Simpson has suggested in his financial memorandum.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

That is a good question. By and large, the public expect public resource to be spent primarily on public services. Equally, however, if there is a public perception that recall should become part of our process, the fact that it comes with costs needs to be recognised. It is a case of getting the balance right.

Questions of parity of process drive certain costs, particularly in the instance of a mechanism that is—how can I best put it?—a two-stage mechanism for regions. That drives increased costs. Whether that should become a factor in determining the process is, ultimately, for the Parliament to consider. The only observation that I can offer right now is that a two-stage process will, of course, cost more than a one-stage process.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I am loth to describe it as a red flag, but I go back to the point that I have just made about a realistic timescale for implementation.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

I think that that is what we should aim for. We should not seek, by necessity, to replicate what is in place at Westminster. We should create a system that we think is proportionate and that works for us as an institution and, fundamentally, for the public in Scotland.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Certainly, convener. I feel very welcome, so that is nice.

I will not say too much by way of opening remarks, and I hope that the session will be more of a discussion. Of course, I will answer any questions that are posed, but I am interested in hearing what the committee thinks about what the regulations might look like.

I remind members that the Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Act 2025 requires the Government to make regulations to prohibit dual mandates for MPs and peers. It did not prescribe a timescale, but I made a commitment to introduce the regulations in time for the Parliament to consider them before the 2026 election. I restate that commitment, and we will be able to meet that requirement.

The act enables us to make regulations in relation to dual mandates for councillors, but it does not require us to do so, so we are considering that. Not only am I committed to bringing forward regulations in time for Parliament to consider them, but I am committed to doing that in line with the Gould principle. On that basis, I envisage laying regulations in September to ensure that Parliament has the opportunity to approve them by November, but that is in Parliament’s hands and is for Parliament to consider.

To give some background, I expressed my broad concerns about provisions on dual mandates being part of the then Scottish Elections (Representation and Reform) Bill, because I was concerned that we had not had an opportunity to consult properly on those matters. I was grateful to have worked with Mr Simpson, who I see has remained with us, to come up with the solution that we would do things by regulation, which enabled us to consult. We have had a nine-week public consultation, which started on 20 January and got 77 responses.

Subsequent to that consultation, I have held two round-table meetings. The first was with representatives of four of the six parties that are represented in Parliament—all six were invited and four accepted the invitation—and the second was with a range of other stakeholders with an interest. Those meetings were useful and instructive in informing my thinking thus far. That thinking is not completely finalised, but it would be disingenuous to say that it has not advanced beyond where it was at the outset of the process. I will be happy to explore that further with the committee and I am keen to hear what committee members think.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

It would always be nice to have more.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

Even if we had that perspective, our regulations are devised in a way that does not compel anyone to stand down, so we can only deal with—

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Dual Mandates

Meeting date: 12 June 2025

Jamie Hepburn

We can deal with the situation only after a person is elected, so that is where our regulations—