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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 August 2025
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Displaying 1025 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I am looking at the evidence of what has happened in the past, which shows that that has not happened in any council in any year in the past. That shows that the approach works and has been demonstrated to work in the past.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I had a number of discussions in the chamber on the issue of temporary and permanent staff, particularly with, I think, Mr Rennie. One point that local authorities continually raised with me was the difficulty in moving staff from temporary to permanent positions, because the money was not permanent—it was not baselined. That is why we moved from using Covid money to providing permanent funding.

We looked at the teacher census to see what had happened in that regard. It was clear that there had not been the movement that we had wanted to see. I would have hoped and expected to see an increase in the number of permanent contracts. Very understandably, because the money was temporary and because of the urgent need to get people in, the number of temporary contracts was high during Covid. I had hoped and expected that that would change, but that has not happened. However, I am keen to work with local government to see what can be done on that issue.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

There is a myriad of ways of using a teaching workforce—it could be for supporting pupils with additional support needs or for smaller group work that assists with numeracy and literacy. I do not see those teachers as surplus but as a teaching workforce that can be used by a local authority to assist children in a variety of ways as it sees fit, particularly to try to improve attainment.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

As we go through the year, we work with local authorities to put monitoring arrangements in place. One challenge for us was that the figures that showed the problem came out in December but, because our agreement with local authorities did not include additional monitoring, we did not have in-year monitoring last year. We want to improve on that. We are still looking at how that will be done, but it will probably be done quarterly and will flag up in-year issues with local authorities. Our discussions with COSLA are on-going. We do not want an overly onerous or a continuous monitoring process. We also recognise that numbers will go up and down because of recruitment and retention at different times of the year.

If there is an in-year issue, that will begin with concerns being raised at council officer or official level. They will look at the reasons for that and at the challenges in the area. If the issue has to be escalated to me and we have to have discussions with that particular council, that will happen. If we reach a point where the situation still has not improved by the end of the year, the last tranche of money can be withheld from a council at that point. That is absolutely a worst-case scenario and is one that we do not want to get to. We want to work with local authorities in-year to understand their specific circumstances. There is no blanket approach.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget 2023-24

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

I will challenge something that you said in your question, if I may. We have not been taking the 2022-23 approach for years. We tried that one year. Actually, until 2018-19, we had exactly the system that we are now putting back in place. During that time, no council got to the stage of having a financial penalty. That proves that that approach worked and I anticipate that to happen again.

What we did for years is what we are just about to reintroduce. I hasten to add that I do not want it to be in place for years—I want to get to a different situation for the next financial year—but, when you look at what happened historically, not a single council in any of those years got to the point of having a financial penalty.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

There are areas that the Scottish Government controls and there are areas that we do not.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Those decisions are taken by the research councils, and the amount of funding will vary from year to year.

Clearly, we do what we can within the Scottish Government research budget to ensure that we support universities, but decisions on UK-wide funding are not for the Government to influence or dictate. We obviously keep a close eye on research funding, and we have continuous discussions with the sector to see what can be done by Government to improve it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

We will work with every single public body, based on their priorities for the next year. Regardless of whether we are talking about core Government departments or our public agencies, we need to ensure that we are driving maximum efficiency and spending our money as effectively as possible. Within Government, we have sponsorship teams for every public body that we work with, and we will collaborate with those bodies to ensure that the Government is still delivering on our commitments in the most effective manner possible. Of course, the approach will vary from one public body to another, depending on their circumstances.

It is also important that we continue to encourage reform within our public bodies to ensure that we make changes that are necessary to deliver services as effectively and efficiently as possible. An overall reform process is being encouraged to ensure that such decisions are taken in the best possible way. As I have said, there will be variation among public bodies, but nowhere in Government will be immune to the challenges that are posed by the budget that has been set, and no one will be immune from having to take difficult decisions during that time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 18 January 2023

Shirley-Anne Somerville

A number of areas will assist with reducing the cost of the school day. One important aspect of that is free school meals. I mentioned earlier that the move to SCP eligibility in primaries 6 and 7 should mean that more than 300,000 children in Scotland will benefit from free school meals. That is a really important package, and we are looking to support other areas of work. We are increasing the school clothing grant by the rate of inflation, and work is being done around core curriculum charges. We are assisting children and young people and their families with the cost of the school day.

A lot of work is also done to ensure that schools and local authorities overall have a much greater awareness and understanding of the implications of the costs of the school day and what they can do to assist with, for example, the ways in which, over a year, families will be asked to contribute, albeit voluntarily, to aspects of school activity. Again, that impacts on families’ budgets.