Chamber and committees

Clearly, all councils will be affected by RAAC, given that it was used throughout Scotland. The situation will vary from council to council, and it will vary in its severity, depending on the state of the RAAC at this point. I strongly encourage the committee to take particular cognisance of some of the very early evidence that was given about the fact that RAAC being in a building does not mean that it is unsafe or that there is immediate concern. I go back to the point about reassurance. We are keen to work with local authorities to understand the extent of the issue.

The issue affects not just local authorities but the wider public sector. The challenge will be how responsible building owners fund that work. That is why the liaison with the UK Government is so important, because it will not be a small issue. Just as local authorities are not sitting with a pot of money and looking to change priorities, the Scottish Government is also not sitting with a capital allocation that is simply for RAAC. If there is an ask of the Scottish Government, without anything coming from the UK Government, the Scottish Government would have to look at that, too.

That depends on the building. A structural engineer and other professionals would go in and assess that case by case.

You raise an important point. There are the aspects around new build, which I think is where Mr Coffey was going with some of his questioning initially. However, when the initial buyer sells, the home report will be there. If there are lessons to be learned about how the home report process needs to be improved or adapted, it can be looked at, because none of it is set in stone. There is information in the home report, but those aspects can always be built on, should we feel the need for that.

No. There has been a disappointing response on that so far. We have sent letters to the UK Government on the specific issue, asking that that be looked at and that additional funding be made available to the devolved Governments, as it should be made available to departments in the UK Government as they seek to deal with the issue. It is fair to say that the letters that we have had back on that have been disappointing. There is no sign that the UK Government has recognised that there is a need for mitigation funding for RAAC for the Scottish Government or the Welsh Government. That is clearly a concern, and we will look at that.

As I think someone mentioned earlier, local authorities are not sitting with an unallocated pot of money to deal with the mitigation of RAAC, nor is the Scottish Government. Our capital funding is allocated and it is under pressure, given the great increases in construction costs that we have seen over recent years. I will not go into the reasons for that, but it is a fact about the context that we are in. At this point, it is clearly concerning if there is an expectation that the Scottish Government should assist all public sector bodies with the situation without UK Government support coming in to assist with that process.

That is an area about which concern has been raised. There must be a level of public trust in the processes that are in place, whether in relation to procurement, building standards or construction methods, which I mentioned earlier. We must always ensure that public trust is maintained and that people have the reassurance of knowing that those who procure buildings do so in the right manner and for the right reasons. Mention has been made of best value and energy standards, and all those aspects need to be looked at during the procurement process.

At this point, I am reassured, but if there are any areas where lessons need to be learned, the Government stands ready to do that. We have processes in place in the Government for such concerns to be raised directly with ministers through officials, for example through their work with professional bodies, so that we can act accordingly.

I will take the NHS as an example. Of course, bodies in other parts of the public sector are working to different timescales. In the NHS, based on the progress that has been made to date, we expect the surveys to be completed by the end of November. The work that is on-going is looking first at buildings that are perceived to present the highest risk, to ensure that the necessary work is undertaken.

When it comes to the school sector and the small number of buildings—it is a very small number—on which more invasive work is required, we have been reassured that that can be done during the October holidays, when staff and students will not be in situ, and completed by the end of October.

There is a variety of works teams in place for different sectors. I have given the examples of the NHS and schools and have explained where we are as regards the speed with which that work has progressed to date.

We are at the discovery phase. As I mentioned in my introductory remarks, we are working with the regulator and councils to establish the scale of the issue in social housing. That will also ensure that we have a greater awareness of what might affect certain schemes in which people have exercised their right to buy in previous years. We are already conscious of the issue. I have asked officials to look at it, and to ensure that we discuss it with the local authorities.

We are also conscious that, as we sit here and talk about these things in the round, we are talking about people’s homes and concerns. We are keen to be able to reassure, wherever possible. One of the most important ways of doing that is for councils and registered social landlords to work, as they are doing, to ensure that we have a greater awareness of the extent of the problem.

As I have said, I have already tasked officials to work with COSLA and others to see what we can learn from previous examples in which there has been a right to buy in areas of non-traditional construction methods.

We have a degree of reassurance on some of those issues. Stephen Garvin is involved with a group on which that issue has already been raised. At the start of the process, the Government had questions on capacity and capability—Stephen can give more detail on the reassurances that we have already attempted to receive.

One of the key aspects is the level of expertise and knowledge that already exists in our 32 local authorities, which is very important. We should compare that with the rather disparate nature of the situation down in England, particularly in education, where schools do not have the ability to access local authority knowledge because of the different way in which the system is set up.

We are very close to the fact that we need to keep an eye on the issue. Whether there is a role for Government or whether it is a role for someone else, we are already asking questions about that.

I will bring in Stephen Garvin, as he is on the group that has discussed that issue.

Forgive me for interrupting, but the issue of transparency is important. We have been very keen to work with local authorities to ensure that the information relating to the school estate was published and that information was given to parents about the extent of the issue in a particular building and the mitigations and other measures in place. Clearly, the naming of a building could give rise to great concern that the problem is throughout the building when, in fact, it affects only a very small part of it. In some cases, it turned out that the issue affected a part of the school estate that had not been used for years. The local authorities have that information, which will be published, and they will continue to update it.

In the NHS, each health board will publish that data for its area, and NHS Scotland Assure will publish an update for the whole of Scotland. That will ensure that that information is brought together at strategic level for the whole of Scotland. I am very keen to do that, but in such a way that the responsible building owner provides information to, for example, parents and staff and trade unions about where that is a concern within a building, so that context and reassurance can be given rather than just a list of names.

A really significant part of the evidence that the committee heard earlier this morning was about how knowledge about and expertise on the situation with RAAC has developed over time. Research is, of course, a very important aspect as we learn more about RAAC. It is already being discussed at the UK-wide level and Scottish Government officials are involved in those discussions. The Scottish Government is not looking at the issue alone.

With the possible exception of the Department for Education down south, we are trying to work collaboratively and jointly to discuss research, the capacity in professional organisations and so on. I recognise that the previous panel discussed that and I reassure the committee that it is being discussed across Governments, including the devolved Administrations, to see what more needs to be done in that area.