Chamber and committees

Good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2022 of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee. We are operating in a virtual format this morning, with members participating remotely.

Before we start, I have the pleasure of welcoming Ruth Maguire not only as a new member of the committee but back to Parliament. We are all delighted to have Ruth back with us at Holyrood.

Before I ask her to declare her interests—such as they may be—I also thank and pay tribute to Bill Kidd. We veterans must stick together. I have been working with Bill for many years, during the time that I have been a member of the Parliament, and I very much valued his contribution, sound judgment and advice during the months that he served with us on this committee. I know that he will be serving Parliament in some other capacity, and I wish him well in that. I thank him very much for the job that he did with us over the past year.

The first item on our agenda is to welcome Ruth Maguire and for her to establish for the record whether she wishes to declare any interests.

Our third continued petition is PE1873, on providing hypnotherapy for the treatment of mental health conditions, psychosomatic disorders and chronic pain. It was lodged by Graeme Harvey and last considered in September. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to instruct the national health service to provide hypnotherapy for the treatment of certain conditions. The Scottish Parliament information centre has produced a summary of the available research on hypnotherapy conducted in other countries. It concludes that irritable bowel syndrome appears to be the condition with the most research on the efficacy of hypnotherapy and that evidence for its efficacy in other conditions is more mixed.

Submissions from the leads of clinical health psychology, NHS Orkney and North Ayrshire health and social care partnership highlighted a lack of available evidence on the merits of hypnotherapy. The petitioner’s recent submission reiterates the point that hypnosis in various forms has been in use for thousands of years. He also highlights the point that mindfulness and meditation are not new practices and have always been a part of hypnotherapy treatments.

I should say that I am a former convener of the cross-party group on chronic pain, which has considered the issues.

I take note of that. We may well come back to it.

Like you, I wore a school uniform—more than half a century ago now. I do not know whether it fell out of fashion, but my own experience was that there was an active facilitation of second-hand school uniforms at that time. In fact, there were even retail outlets that organised the sale and receipt of second-hand uniforms. You are absolutely right—very often, there is still a long shelf life left in a school uniform item, as it has only become available because the young person has grown out of it very quickly.

In the first instance, Mr Torrance recommends that we keep the petition open and that we write to the various agencies as he described. We will then hear what they have to say and consider the petition again on receipt of their submissions. Do members agree?

Members indicated agreement.

Thank you.

I thank Rhoda Grant for joining us and for her contribution. As she will have heard, we will keep PE1916 open for the time being and see what response we get. I understand that there are considerable issues, and she highlighted the considerable costs that have been associated with simply trying to make do in relation to the existing facility.

I thank everybody for their forbearance with the remote format and for their contributions, and I look forward to future meetings.

Having said that, I gather that David Torrance wishes to contribute further on the points that we have been discussing.

Thank you, Rhoda. That was helpful, and quite disappointing in some respects.

PE1878, which has been lodged by Andrew Muir, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to investigate why there have been so few prosecutions under sections 315 and 318 of the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003. We last considered the petition at our meeting on 22 September 2021, when we decided to write to the petitioner, and also to the Scottish mental health law review to ask for an update on its work on compulsory detention and care and treatment under the 2003 act.

The review has responded that, as part of its remit, it is

“considering patients’ experiences of care and treatment whilst subject to compulsion, why there has been an increase in compulsory detention and treatment and the reasons for variation in compulsory orders across Scotland.”

That includes “issues of concern” around accountability, complaints systems and strengthened advocacy rights. A link to the review’s full submission can be found in members’ papers.

Do members have any comments or suggestions?

Our next continued petition is PE1881, which is on longer sentences for paedophiles and sexual predators. The petition, which was lodged by Carol Burns and was last considered in September 2021, calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to increase the length of time that sexual predators serve in jail. At that previous meeting, the committee requested an update from the Scottish Sentencing Council on progress on developing sentencing guidelines in relation to rape, sexual assault and indecent images of children. The committee also sought updates from Rape Crisis Scotland and Victim Support Scotland.

We have now received from the Scottish Sentencing Council a submission that provides information about

“the development ... of three general guidelines ... to create a high-level framework for sentencing ... and .... a ... foundation for the development of offence-specific sentencing guidelines”.

The council also says that

“work on the development of guidelines on rape, sexual assault, and indecent images of children is now at”

stage 2, which focuses on

“engaging with key stakeholders, gathering evidence and developing a first draft for each guideline.”

However, the SSC

“is not yet in a position to set out a definitive timescale”

for the publication of the guidelines.

In its submission, Rape Crisis Scotland shares the petitioner’s concern that some

“sentences ... feel disproportionately short to those affected”

by the crime, and it welcomes the SSC’s review of sentencing guidelines.

Do members have any comments?

I note the recommendation that you have made in addition to your suggestion that we close the petition. Do members agree with the suggested course of action?

Members indicated agreement.

PE1883, which was lodged by Katrina Clark, is on the opening of all toddler and baby activities in tier 3 of Covid-19 and any future pandemic lockdowns. The petition, which calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to allow baby and toddler activities to be considered equally with other indoor activities in tier 3 of future lockdowns, was previously considered by the committee in November.

We wrote to the Scottish Government on a range of issues that are highlighted by the petition. In its response, the Scottish Government states that

“No formal analysis has been carried out in relation to”

baby and toddler groups, but that

“engagement took place with ... member organisations”.

It states that

“Small grant funds were set up ... to support smaller organisations”;

that children’s rights impact assessments and business regulatory impact assessments were undertaken at each stage of the pandemic; and that the Scottish Government and Public Health Scotland are working to understand what impacts from the pandemic there might be on children aged up to three and what actions could be taken to reduce those impacts.

The petitioner has subsequently highlighted that similar risks are associated with baby and toddler groups to those that are assessed for soft play centres, but that soft play centres were allowed to open in tier 3 and baby and toddler groups were not.

Do members have any comments?

Our colleague Collette Stevenson MSP has informed the committee that the petitioner, Mr Allan, has very sadly died since we last considered the petition. We are very sorry to receive that news. I pass on the committee’s sincere condolences to Mr Allan’s family. We thank them for the petition that Mr Allan brought to the committee’s attention, which I hope will receive appropriate consideration when the review is forthcoming.