Chamber and committees

As this is the first debate in which I have participated since the passing of our former Labour colleague Hanzala Malik, I wonder whether I might begin with a tribute to him. When I saw that today’s debate was about public service values, I thought about how Hanzala Malik was, to me, the epitome of a politician who was one of the better public servants. He was a regular participant in what I call the “graveyard shift”, which is the Thursday afternoon debate. Colleagues who served in the chamber then will remember that he began every debate by saying, “Good afternoon, Presiding Officer. Good afternoon, everybody.” He would then enter into a spirited contribution.

He was never pejoratively partisan, and I always felt that he had the interests of the people he served at the forefront of his concerns. He left here to serve, again, in council. He was immensely proud of his roots, his community and his family, and I shall always remember him with great affection.

We do well to remember those with whom we have worked over time.

I will make a couple of reflections. One is about age, really, as I approach my late 60s. The peer group that motivated me, as I came into politics, were all men and women who had served in the war, or who had learned of experiences from those who had served in the war. A real sense of duty and public service underpinned that. That was true not only of politics but of people who went into the national health service. They had seen the absolute worst of the world, and they were determined to build the best of a new world thereafter.

Although I do not want to generalise too much, when I look at things now, I sometimes wonder whether that top level, whether in public life or public service, has the same moral authority that it had in the generation that I grew up in the wake of. Sometimes, it seems to me that the moral authority now comes from those on the ground up, rather than from the top down.

When I was undergoing a cancer biopsy at the start of the Covid pandemic, nervous as I was, I was struck by the NHS staff who recognised who I was and asked whether they could meet me to say, “We just want to let you know, Mr Carlaw, that we will not let the country down.” I was very moved by that integrity and the sense of purpose that comes from so many of those who work in our public service, which is, to an extent, now let down by the chiefs. It seems to me that, too often, they seek to defend the indefensible and to find ways around taking responsibility or being properly accountable for what happens.

When I first came into this Parliament, I asked what the NHS compensation bill was. It had grown pretty quickly, and we were all pretty appalled. It had gone from £5 million up to £18.9 million in 2007. In the most recent year, the compensation figure was £109.24 million. It seems to me that there is a reliance on finding routes to absolve or to excuse responsibility, rather than to take responsibility.

The corrosive effect of that is that, further down the line—within our public services, in public life or anywhere—people will think, “Why should I bother? Why should I make all that effort if others can get away and excuse themselves?”

It means that we have a dramatically ageing population, and many of the benefits that the Parliament has rightly offered to people in Scotland, including free personal care, free transport at 60, free tuition and free prescription charges, cost even more with an expanding population, who will draw on and rely on them: an even bigger percentage of the population than was the case when those benefits were first introduced.

Time is such that I will not be able to make as much of a contribution on as wide a range of areas as I wanted to cover this afternoon but, yes, I recall that, during the session from 2011 to 2016, members in the chamber were very reluctant to apply the word “crisis” to any of our public services. When an MSP said that the NHS was in crisis, there was a general feeling around the chamber that we could not indulge in that sort of hyperbole.

In the decade since, we have come to the view that there is a crisis in all our public services—whether in education, policing or health. That is not just here in Scotland. Let us be honest: it is also the case in Wales and elsewhere, too. Why? Back in 2007, we talked about the demographic changes that were coming in this country and which Michael Marra has reflected on. However, we sometimes do not accept what that means.

Alasdair Allan rose—

That has to be funded within the budget settlement in Scotland, over and above all the other pressures that apply to every other part of the United Kingdom.

I will take an intervention from Alasdair Allan first.

I addressed the fact earlier that we had record migration into the UK last year, but not to Scotland.

I had hoped that this debate, on a Thursday afternoon, could be more reflective, whereas I thought that the motion invited a more controversial and spirited debate. Mr Marra very politely eviscerated the Government; Mr Rennie less politely eviscerated the Government—it did get rather heated. It seems to me, however, that if we recognise that we have a hugely ageing demographic, that such problems are common elsewhere and that we have advanced additional public services here in Scotland, it is not a weakness on the part of the Government to accept, after all these years, that not everything is right or going right.

If we are to make progress, at some point—as Alex Neil once recognised, when he was a cabinet secretary—it will require more of a collective understanding and acceptance of what our priorities are going to be and how we are going to address them. I am sorry to Mr Greer, but that must go beyond simply saying, “I want an even bigger state,” or, “I want a larger staff head count: it’s only gone up by 55 per cent,” and telling people, “You’ve never had it so rarely as bad as you think,” to paraphrase what I think Mr Greer said.

In closing, let me dedicate at least part of my speech, generously, to Ross Greer in this, the 150th anniversary of the year of the birth of Sir Winston Churchill, who has of course been such an inspiration to the notorious reputation that Mr Greer has managed to secure.

I thank the petitioner, Amy Lee, and welcome the new petition. Does the committee agree to hold the petition open and to seek information from the bodies that we have identified? Once we have those responses, we will consider the position in due course.

Members indicated agreement.

Item 2 is consideration of continued petitions. The first is PE1862, which relates to introducing community representation on boards of public organisations that deliver lifeline services to island communities. The petition has been lodged by Rona MacKay, Angus Campbell and Naomi Bremner on behalf of the Uist economic task force. I am pleased to welcome the petitioners to today’s meeting. Angus has joined us in person, and we are joined online by Rona and Naomi, who will be contributing remotely. Welcome, to you all.

The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to introduce community representation on boards of public organisations that deliver lifeline services to island communities, in keeping with the Islands (Scotland) Act 2018. We last considered the petition at our meeting on 14 June. At that point, we received an indication from the petitioners that they would very much like to give evidence in respect of the petition. We agreed to that, so we have the petitioners with us this morning.

The committee has a number of questions that we might wish to explore with you, but before we do that, have you agreed that one of you will be an introductory spokesman on behalf of the three of you?

The question is, therefore, whether you have anything that you want to say to us in advance, or whether you would be content for us to move to questions first. There will also be an opportunity to sum up at the end, if we do not cover ground that you would like to cover.

Carry on, please, whoever is going to do it.

Arm I nominating you, then, Angus? Rona and Naomi, are you content for Angus to take the lead here? I see that they are nodding. That is fine—you are content. On you go, Angus.