Chamber and committees

I am not against that, but I just want to check something. You mentioned a follow-up session earlier. Are we now talking about the same thing?

That is on 23 November.

No. I mean when the bill was drafted, did the Government consider that attempting to make further allowances around rough shooting would undermine parts of the bill? Was that an issue that you considered?

My question is about the comments that Police Scotland has made on enforceability. You will be familiar with the issue that we have just discussed around what constitutes a pack, but there are other enforcement issues. Police Scotland said that it feels that most people—I think that those were the words that were used—would obey the law, but will those comments be considered when, for instance, guidance or licensing schemes are being formulated?

We have talked and have asked about whether exemptions around rough shooting might be workable. In our additional call for evidence, we received a comment from the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission, which stated:

“In the commission’s view, extending the bill’s provisions further to accommodate other forms of rough shooting is undesirable and unnecessary. To do so would seriously risk undermining both the legislation’s purpose and its enforcement.”

Did the Government consider that further exemptions in respect of rough shooting would undermine other parts of the bill or the principles of the bill?

I share my colleague’s worry about the viability of independent theatres during the Tory cost of living crisis. Given last week’s welcome summit to bring together cultural organisations, does the minister agree with me that Labour should join us in calling on the UK Government—as it is the architect of this crisis—to make additional funding available to enable the Scottish Government to respond more effectively to the challenges that this and other sectors face?

Latha de na làithean seasaidh mi suas anns an t seòmar seo agus bruidhnidh mi anns a’ Ghàidhlig mu sheirbheisean slàinte, no an Ucràin.

Leis an fhìrinn innse, dh’fheuch mi a leithid a dhèanamh turas no dhà mar-thà, aig àm nan ceisteanan anns a’ Phàrlamaid. Às dèidh làimh, bha daoine an-còmhnaidh a’ faighneachd ceistean dhiom mar “Carson a bha thu a’ bruidhinn anns a’ Ghàidhlig? Cha robh sinn a’ bruidhinn mu chuspair na Gàidhlig an-diugh.”

Gu dearbh, bidh cuid a dhaoine anns na meadhanan fhathast a’ faighneachd iomadach seòrsa ceist mun Ghàidhlig nach biodh iad idir a’ faighneachd mun Bheurla.

Chan eil duine sam bith a’ faighneachd dè chosgas na seirbhisean poblach ann an Alba a th’ air an toirt seachad tro mheadhann na Beurla: sgoiltean Beurla, seirbhisean slàinte anns a’ Bheurla, soidhnichean-rathaid anns a’ Bheurla.

Agus dìreach a dhèanamh cinnteach nach eil mì-thuigse sam bith ann, chan eil mi a’ gearan gu bheil na seirbhisean sin ann, anns a’ Bheurla.

Ach, agus seo am puing agam, tha na ceistean sin air an cumail gu sònraichte airson seirbhisean den t-seòrsa sin nuair a tha iad anns a’ Ghàidhlig.

Ach, tha a’ mhòr chuid—cho faisg air ceud sa cheud is nach eil e a’ dèanamh diofar mòr statistigeach—de na seirbhisean poblach ann an Alba air an toirt seachad anns a’ Bheurla.? Eadhan anns na h-eileanan bidh a’ mhòr-chuid de na seirbhisean seo tro mheadhan na Beurla.

Tha sinn uile an-còmhnaidh ag aontachadh air rud no dhà a tha cudromach mun Ghàidhlig—agus tha e math gu bheil sinn aonaichte, mar a bha a h-uile duine an-diugh ag ràdh. ’S e gu bheil a’ Ghàidhlig prìseal, no gu bheil i na pàirt chudromach nar cultur agus ceòl agus eachdraidh.

Ach ‘s e rudeigin eile a th’ anns a’ Ghàidhlig cuideachd. ’S e cànan a th’ innte.

Chan eil cànan sam bith a’ fuireach ann an saoghal sàmhach teoretigeach, àitigean eile. Bidh cànan air a bhruidhinn, air a chluinntinn agus air fhaicinn. Bidh daoine ga chleachdadh—eadhan nuair a bhios daoine eile ann, faisg air làimh, bho àm gu àm, aig nach eil an cànan sin. Sin an suidheachadh àbhaisteach le iomadach cànan eile ann ann an iomadach dùthaich eile. ’S e sin, mar a chanas iad, am mainstream.

Mar sin, tha mi’n dòchas gum bi am bile seo a’ dèanamh chothroman ùra gus am bi a’ Ghàidlig air a cluinntinn agus air a cleachdadh nas trice: gus am bi a’ Ghàidhlig anns a’ mhainstream sin.

Agus, gun rugamaid nas fhaisge air suidheachadh àbhaisteach, far am biodh barrachd anns an roinn phoblaich agus an roinn phrìobhaidich a’ toirt seachad seirbhisean tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig, ann an iomadach seòrsa coimhearsneachd far a bheil iarrtas ann an cànan a tha mi a’ bruidhinn an-dràsda a chleachdadh no ionnsachadh.

Following is the simultaneous interpretation:

One of these days, I will stand up in the chamber and speak in Gaelic about the health service or Ukraine. To tell the truth, I have tried to do something along those lines a couple of times in parliamentary question times, but afterwards people have immediately asked me questions like, “Why did you speak in Gaelic? We weren’t speaking about the subject of Gaelic today.” Indeed, some still ask various questions about Gaelic that they would never think of asking about English.

Nobody asks what the public services that are delivered through the medium of English cost in Scotland. English-medium schools have services in English, and we have English road signs. Before that point is seized on, let me say that I make no complaint about such services being provided in English. However, those questions are reserved especially for such services when they are delivered in Gaelic, even though the majority of services—as close to 100 per cent as makes no statistical difference—are delivered in English. Even in the islands, the majority of public services are delivered through English.

We all regularly agree about Gaelic, which is good. As everyone has said, Gaelic is precious and it is an important part of our culture, our music and our history. No language dwells in some silent, theoretical place somewhere else. Our language is spoken, heard and seen. People will use it even if there sometimes happen to be others nearby who may not know the language. That is a normal situation with many other languages in many other countries. It is the mainstream, as people say.

I hope that the proposed bill will create new opportunities so that Gaelic will be heard and used more frequently and will be in the mainstream, and that we might reach a more normal situation where more parts of the public and private sectors provide services in Gaelic to the many types of community in which the demand exists to speak or to learn the language that I am speaking now.

The member continued in Scots:

At ae time, awbodie in this Pairliament spak Scots. Ah ken Ah aye roose some fowk whan Ah mind them at this place wisnae inventit oot o naethin at aw, twenty year syne, but Ah dinnae mean tae fash them.

O coorse, speikin Scots in here, thir days, can be an unchancie business. Lookin at evidence frae the last wee whilie, Ah doot whit Ah am daein richt noo means that Ah will be trolled by aw mainner o fowk that’s opeenions Ah dinnae muckle care aboot. At the verra least, Ah can mak ye a shortleit noo o the newspapers that will cry me ill-mainnert or donnert or waur nor thon.

There isnae time, the day, tae howk faur eneuch ben intae the national psychology tae explain aw o thon. Hooivver, jist as Ah did wi Gaelic the noo, raither nor speik aboot speceefic policies in the bill, Ah jaloosed that maist o ma speech wid be better yaised jist ettlin at somethin else: myth-bustin.

Scots disnae really form airt nor pairt o the linguistic tradeetion o the place Ah bide noo—the Wastren Isles—but it does in the place Ah come frae: the Borders. Ah wis speikin mair or less staundard Gaelic in ma speech—like maist leids, Gaelic has sindrie spoken dialecks forby a screivit staundard; dinnae lippen on oniebodie that tells ye it is jist Scots that does that—sae Ah will try tae yaise as near tae a standard Scots as exeests. Hooivver, if oo wes aw gree’d for me tae yaise Border Scots, Ah am shuir Ah cuid ableege ee. Ah wad be mair as happy tae say the nummers “ane”, “twa” and “echt” as “yin”, “twae” and “eyt”.

Twa-three meenutes isnae eneuch tae get yokit, though, tae the wark o myth-bustin aroon Scots. Ma brush aiblins seems braid eneuch tae be a besom, but lat me tak on jist the ae norie.

Tae touch on a pynt that Donald Cameron, richtly, brocht up aboot the media, some folk rins a Scots mile frae the Scots language, thir days, because they see it as some kin o Trojan horse—or, at the verra least, a Trojan cuddy—fur ae poleetical pynt o view. Hooivver, it isnae. Sir Walter Scott, whase name wis brocht in by the lug and the horn a wee bittie syne, wis a poleetical unionist, and John Buchan wis a Tory peer. It didnae hinner them frae scrievin in Scots—sae awbodie can keep a caum poleetical souch.

Hooivver, Ah am jist auld eneuch tae mind on seein a teacher speir a laddie at the schuil if he had duin his punishment exercise, and syne convert the sentence tae the tawse whan he got back the answer, “Aye”. Ah hope at Ah am young eneuch tae see a Scotland whaur baith Scots and Gaelic get the places they deserve tae hae in oor schuils, oor communities and oor public life. The bill is a braw lowpin-on stane tae get us stertit doon thon road.

The member continued in Gaelic:

Mo bheannachd air an obair a tha an Rìaghaltas a’ dèanamh airson na Gàidhlig agus airson Albais anns a’ bhile seo.

Following is the simultaneous interpretation:

I thank the Government for the work that it is doing for Gaelic and Scots in the bill. [Applause.]

This is really more of an observation than a question, but in the Scots New Testament as translated from the Greek by Lorimer, at least in the apocryphal bit at the end, the only character to speak in standard English is the devil. [Laughter.]

Will the member give way?

If you name him, he appears.

I agree with much of what the member says. Given the importance of Walter Scott in Scottish literature, which he rightly mentions, would the member agree that it should be the right of every child who goes to school in Scotland to learn about Scottish literature and that that should not merely be left to the enthusiasm of individual teachers?