Chamber and committees

Tapadh leibhse gu Murchadh Friseal airson dèanamh cinnteach gun deach an deasbad seo a chumail anns a’ Phàrlamaid an-diugh.

Agus meal-an-naidheachd air Baile Mòr Pheairt, a chuir fàilte cho cridheil air a’ Mhòd Nàiseanta Rìoghail am-bliadhna. An-dràsda, feumaidh mi m’ ùidh fhèin a chlàradh sa chuspair seo. Bha mise a’ seinn ann am Peairt aig a’ Mhòd am-bliadhna-sa. Mar as àbhaist, bha e na thlachd dhomh pàirt a ghabhail anns na co-fharpaisean le còisir às a’ choimhearsnachd agam fhèin, Còisir Sgìr’ a’ Bhac ann an Leòdhas. Bha sinn glè thoilichte leis na duaisean a fhuair sin. Mealaibh-an-naidheachd cuideachd, bu chòir dhomh a ràdh, air a h-uile duine a bha a’ gabhail pàirt anns a’ Mhòd an t-seachdain ’s a a chaidh.

Bidh am Mòd Nàiseanta Rìoghail a’ toirt saoghal na Gàidhlig ri chèile ann an dòigh shònraichte. ’S e riochdachadh mòr a th’ anns a’ Mhòd air de cho beartach ’s a tha ar cultar agus ar cànan, tro na farpaisean seinn, bàrdachd, ealain, sgeulachd, dràma, ciùil, dannsa agus iomadach rud eile gach bliadhna.

Bidh am Mòd Nàiseanta a’ sealltainn ar cultar do na diofar choimhearsnachdan air am bi an fhèis a’ tadhal gach bliadhna agus an cothrom aig Alba air fad na farpaisich as fheàrr fhaicinn tro sheachdain a’ Mhòid air an telebhisean no an cluinntinn air an rèidio.

Bha a h-uile duine a tha an sàs ann an saoghal a’ Mhòid—na farpaisich air fad agus an luchd-èisteachd cuideachd—ag ionndrainn a’ Mhòid gu mòr bho 2019, ged a bha tachartasan a’ gabhail àite air-loidhne anns an eadar-ama. Bha e cho math tighinn còmhla anns an aon àite airson a’ Mhòid a-rithist am-bliadhna, agus mealaibh-an-naidheachd dhan Chomunn Ghàidhealach airson na rinn sibh gus Mòd 2022 a dhèanamh cho soirbheachail.

Mur eil mòran eòlais agaibh air dè th’ anns a’ Mhòd Nàiseanta agus cho dèidheil ’s a tha mòran Ghàidheil air, innsidh mi sgeulachd dhuibh bho Mhòd o chionn beagan bhliadhnaichean.

Bha duine ann a bha air na saor-làithean aige, air turas socair, sàmhach leis an RSPB - Comann Rìoghail Dìon nan Eun. Rinn e mearachd mhòr ge-tà, oir ’s ann a bhùc e a-steach dhan aon taigh-òsta ri leth-dusan còisir aig a’ Mhòd. Bha an truaghan seo a’ gnogadh air doras an t-seòmair an ath dhoras aig dà uair anns a’ mhadainn, leis gun robh an t-seinn ’s am fealla-dhà fhathast a’ dol gu làidir. Chuir e ceist air na fichead duine a bha cruinn còmhla anns an rùm sin—carson idir a bha gille òg nam measg a’ seinn na pìoba?

Ach, a’ cur an aon duine mhì-fhortanach sin dhan dàrna taobh, tha taic fharsaing ann an Alba dhan Mhòd, agus dhan Ghàidhlig. Bha sin furasta fhaicinn ann am Peairt an t-seachdain ’s a chaidh, agus tha mi toilichte a ràdh gu bheil an taic sin ri faicinn anns a’ Phàrlamaid seo cuideachd, a’ chuid as motha den tìde, thairis air na pàrtaidhean, mar a tha follaiseach an-diugh.

An e am Mòd an t-aon rud a tha cudromach dhan Ghàidhlig? Uill, chan eil duine sam bith a’ dèanamh a-mach gur e. Le cinnt, mar a bha daoine eile ag ràdh, tha a’ Ghàidhlig ann an staid chugallach; mar sin, tha e cho cudromach gum bi sinn ga bruidhinn cho tric ’s as urrainn dhuinn gu làitheil, a’ bharrachd air a bhith ga seinn.

Tha dualchas beòthail aig ceòl na Gàidhlig, agus tha am Mòd a’ dèanamh obair mhòr airson a’ chànain fhèin agus gus coimhearsnachd na Gàidhlig a tharraing còmhla gach bliadhna. Tha e ceart gu bheil a’ Phàrlamaid a’ moladh sin an-diugh. Tapadh leibh.

Following is the simultaneous interpretation:

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First, I thank Murdo Fraser for ensuring that the debate has been held in the Parliament. I congratulate the people of Perth for giving such a warm welcome to the Royal National Mòd during the past fortnight.

At this point, I must declare an interest of sorts, as I sang at the Mòd in Perth this year. As ever, it was great fun to take part in the competitions as part of my local choir from Back, in Lewis. We were very pleased with the prize that we won. I congratulate everyone else who took part in the Mòd this week.

The Royal National Mòd draws the Gaelic world together in a unique way. It represents the richness of our language and culture through singing, poetry, art, storytelling, drama, choral and instrumental music, dance competitions and many others each year.

The Royal National Mòd showcases our culture to the various communities that the festival visits each year, when people can see the best competitors from Scotland on the television or hear them on the radio. Everybody who is involved in the Mòd—competitors and audience alike—have missed the Mòd greatly since 2019, although some events were held online in the meantime. It was great to gather in the same place again for the Mòd, so I congratulate An Comunn Gàidhealach on its work to make the 2022 Mòd such a success.

For members who do not know much about the Mòd and what it means for many Gaels, I will tell a story about something that happened at the Mòd a few years ago. A man was on his holidays, having a relaxing and quiet trip with the RSPB. He made the mistake of booking into the one hotel of the Mòd, when there were half a dozen others that were quieter. The man had to knock on the door of the room next door at 2 am due to the loud fun and games and singing that were going on. Twenty people were gathered in that room, including a young man who was playing the pipes.

Putting that young man to one side, the Mòd is supported throughout Scotland, as is Gaelic. That was seen in Perth last week, and I am glad to see that clear support across all parties in the Parliament today.

I do not think that anyone would claim that the Mòd is the only important thing to Gaelic, but Gaelic is certainly in a vulnerable state, as others have said. Therefore, it is vital that we continue to speak it as well as sing in it as much as we can, every day.

Gaelic has a lively musical tradition. The Mòd contributes hugely to encouraging the language and, as it brings the community together every year, it is right that the Parliament praises it today.

I am Alasdair Allan, MSP for Na h-Eileanan an Iar.

I hesitate to list the pressures that the fishing industry might feel under. Obviously, some pressures are the result of deliberate policy around Brexit, but I am quite sure that others have been brought to us more recently. Those of us who represent fishing constituencies are well aware of fuel costs, labour shortages and issues with visas. Rather than put any more words in your mouths, do people want to say something about the pressures that exist in the fishing industry during this time that we are living through?

Excuse me for that interruption—I believe that my sneezes are a source of renewable energy.

Elaine Whyte briefly touched on the issue of visas. I am curious to know whether you or anyone else wants to say a little bit more about that, given the workforce pressures that fishing faces and the difficulties that I know from my constituency experience are associated with not easily being able to obtain visas for people from outside the European Union in particular.

During what he has acknowledged to be an anxious time for many in the museums and galleries sector, does the minister agree that the issues are compounded for many smaller museums and galleries in particular, given the Tories’ cruel and reckless austerity policies, which presumably mean that fewer people have the means to visit a gallery in the first place?

Will the member give way?

Without trading quotations, will Russell Findlay also acknowledge that the committee received evidence from none other than Lord Bonomy, the author of the review in question, who said that the bill

“makes everything much clearer and simpler”

and that it will be

“a great incentive for better enforcement of the law”?—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 41.]

I want to declare less of an interest and more of an objectivity: my constituency of the Western Isles has no native fox population. There was a single sighting some 14 years ago, which can convincingly be explained as a fox only if it was either an exceptionally good swimmer or a very sly CalMac passenger. I have tried to approach my role on the committee from that dispassionate starting point.

I thank everyone involved in the stage 1 report, including all the other committee members, the witnesses, those stakeholders who provided written evidence and, not least, the committee clerks. It is important to remember that the aims of the bill grew out of the response to Lord Bonomy’s report on the review of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002, by producing better and less ambiguous legislation on the hunting of wild mammals. Doing so requires considering two objectives: on the one hand, preventing cruelty, and on the other, recognising the legitimate needs for pest control that farmers and other land managers have.

Although it is inevitable that not all will agree with the committee’s findings in the stage 1 report, I believe that the committee has taken balanced evidence on the many questions before it and has done so in more measured tones than one or two of the contributions in the debate suggest we have.

This is undeniably a difficult and technical issue. Rather than engage with inevitably polarising articles of faith around the question of hunting with dogs, I believe that the committee’s stage 1 report is instead an effort to examine the facts. Not only does it seek to examine the Scottish Government’s proposals, it requests, as others have mentioned, further information from the Government on points of the bill where further information was, in the committee’s view, still needed. The Government has already responded to that call, which is very welcome, and the Government’s response to the report will, I believe, help to inform the bill as it goes forward.

A number of stakeholders have already commented that the bill represents a significant clarification of the law. Perhaps most notably, as I alluded to in an earlier intervention, the author of the 2016 review, Lord Bonomy, in giving evidence to the committee, said that he regarded the bill as a

“very well-crafted piece of legislation”

and an improvement on the existing law. He said that the bill

“solves the problems that I identified about the loose and variable use of language. It makes everything much clearer and simpler, which, in itself, should be a great incentive for better enforcement of the law, because the police and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service were struggling with the effective detection and prosecution of offenders.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 41.]

In the same evidence session, Dr Pete Goddard from the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission said:

“There are some small points on which greater clarity and less confusion could be introduced but, in general, it is moving towards questioning practices and looking for solutions that follow international ethical principles for wildlife control”.—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 12.]

He said that it was “very supportive” of such moves.

However, the report also acknowledges the views of a minority of committee members on various specific issues such as the inclusion of rabbits in the definition of wild mammal and whether the bill could create a liability for dog walkers where a dog chases a wild mammal while being exercised. Incidentally, for my part, I believe that the evidence that we heard answered any questions about that last scenario very convincingly, and that view was shared by the majority of the committee.

Other issues on which we took extensive evidence included the proposed two-dog limit and, as others have discussed, the licensing scheme that would provide for exceptions to that; the introduction of deprivation orders, which would allow the courts to intervene in relation to any dogs or horses used in an offence; allowing exceptions for the training of dogs; the use of dogs underground; and the inclusion, as we have talked about, of rabbits in the terms of the bill, which, as others have alluded to, is intended to address the fact that those suspected of hare coursing frequently use as a cover the explanation that they are legally using dogs to hunt rabbits.

I thank the member for raising the issue. My recollection from the evidence that was given to us by the police is that they would welcome measures that would address the issue of individuals using the excuse of hunting rabbits as a cover for illegal hare coursing. That is a sensible measure that the bill seeks to bring in.

To conclude, in our stage 1 report, the committee recommends that the Parliament approves the general principles of the bill. That has perhaps not always been emphasised in the course of the debate, so let me emphasise it now: the committee report recommends that we as a Parliament approve the general principles of the bill, and I hope that Parliament will now do so.

I will resist the temptation to talk about a specific building, cabinet secretary, as we have already corresponded on it.

On the issues that you are raising with regard to Historic Environment Scotland, what is your expectation of the extent to which those communities to whom historic buildings that might not be open are still important should be involved and kept aware of what is going on?