Chamber and committees

We have heard a lot about the need for in-work support. It is good when someone is in employment, but it is important to provide that future support.

I bring in Michelle Thomson, to be followed by Colin Smyth.

We will speak to the Education, Children and Young People Committee about the work that it is doing.

Before I bring in Maggie Chapman, I will just say that what Enable Scotland described in its evidence about the private and public sectors was that there is more flexibility in the private sector. We heard that it was easier for it to make connections with the private sector. It runs things such as academies, where it takes in maybe 10 clients who spent a week at a workplace and would then go through the formal application process. Enable found that the public sector does not have the same degree of flexibility and responsiveness as the private sector. It is not that the public sector is reluctant to employ people; the issue is that in the private sector the lead-in time is better and the relationship building is easier. That gives a bit more background to what we have just been discussing.

I will soon bring in Fiona Hyslop.

You referred to the fair work action plan. There are only two references to people with learning disabilities in that plan. Maggie Chapman asked about our being at risk of reaching a plateau in progress. The Fraser of Allander Institute report to which I referred earlier indicates that people with learning disabilities remain those who are furthest away from the workforce. There is not enough progress being made in that respect. If we do not make progress in that area we risk not meeting the target. Does the Scottish Government agree with that analysis, and is there a clear focus on people with learning disabilities being a group whom we need to concentrate on if we are to meet the target?

That is helpful.

We met clients in Dundee, and it was great to hear about their experiences of support and how it had changed their lives. However, in Dundee, we also discussed unmet need. Although the organisation there works with quite a lot of people, it still recognises that there is huge unmet need out there among people who are not accessing services and not getting into employment. There is untapped potential and opportunity in our workforce. We want the Government to ensure that the target is reached, that more investment is put in and that that group is supported.

My final question is on the Social Enterprise Scotland report that referred to the pay gap. As well as the disability employment gap, there is a pay gap—for every £1 that a non-disabled employee earns, a disabled employee earns 83p. There is a gap of almost £4,000 between the yearly salaries. Does that come under the Government’s fair work agenda? Has it been looked at? How do we address the pay gap for disabled people?

Good morning, and welcome to the fourth meeting in 2023 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. Our first item of business is a decision on taking item 3 in private. Are members content to take that item in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Thank you.

I have a couple of final questions. Written submissions from Enable Scotland and Social Enterprise Scotland have said that the focus has been on providing support to get disabled people into work but that that maybe does not recognise the importance of in-work support and the need to ensure that it is sufficiently funded to enable people to retain employment.

Enable Scotland has pretty good figures on retention, but that has been achieved through one-to-one support from workers who are not overloaded by their case load and who can provide the level of support that people need. Is it recognised as an important part of the strategy to increase employability and decrease the gap that the issue is about not just getting people into jobs—although that will have an impact on the gap—but is also abut retention and keeping people in employment?

We heard yesterday about career progression. It is not just about getting people into employment; it is also about the ambition and aspirations that can be achieved through that. Is that recognised as an important part of what we need to do?

We have heard about the access to work programme which, as you say, is quite well funded. We have heard about difficulties with delays and with the application process, so we will follow that up.

However, my question was not just about that type of support; it was also about the support that we give in Scotland to the third sector and other organisations. Those organisations have talked about the importance of continuity of services. An organisation that has helped someone to gain confidence to apply for a job and has got them through that is often the organisation that is best placed to provide in-work support.

Funds will sometimes be drawn down from the access to work scheme, but at other times that is funded by the Scottish Government or by local authorities. We heard positive feedback about Dundee and Edinburgh councils, which have decided to give some security of funding to organisations to continue that work. That goes back to the postcode lottery question, because it is not happening everywhere.

The access to work programme is important, and people should have more information about it and be able to access it; it should have a higher profile. However, that aside, does the Scottish Government recognise that there is a job to do to support people once they are in employment to secure their employment, and to ensure that organisations are funded to provide that? Do you see that being part of the strategy?