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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 924 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Thank you. I have one more question, which is on the apprenticeship levy. The issue keeps being raised with us by employers who are frustrated that they put money into the apprenticeship levy but do not see any return on it. Do you have a view on how we can create better transparency around where that money comes from?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Okay. Thanks.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Skills Delivery

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Thank you. That is helpful.

The Government is taking forward a bill that is about shifting funding to the Scottish Funding Council, which will then be responsible for all post-school training. I think that that is in line with your suggestion. You will be very familiar—as we all are—with the crisis in university funding that we have right now. We have seen that in Dundee and we are seeing it at other universities—the University of Edinburgh is making cuts. At the same time, colleges are coming up with similar complaints. Is there not a risk that, by putting all the funding together in one place, we will see the apprenticeship funding being raided to fill the black hole in the universities?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

You co-wrote a paper with Pamela Cox and Maurice Sunkin on the case for the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. That is relevant because, right now, this Parliament is discussing a proposed victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. I think that the convener sits on the committee that is considering that bill, although I do not.

I read the paper with interest, and what really struck me was your conclusion. Forgive me for paraphrasing, and correct me if I have this wrong but, in effect, you put the question: if the new commissioner is not to be given statutory powers, is it really worth having him or her? For the benefit of the committee, will you elaborate a little on your thinking in reaching that conclusion?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

The Scottish Information Commissioner, David Hamilton, made that point to the committee when he came to give evidence a few weeks ago—namely, that even he could not properly get a handle on how many public bodies there are in Scotland, despite the role that his office has in securing freedom of information.

Dr Gill, in your 2023 report on creating new public bodies, “When should public bodies exist? Rewriting the ‘three tests’ for when government does things at arm’s length”, you challenged the idea that they should be created only as a last resort. Can you explain your thinking?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Dr Lamont, I have a specific question about your paper. First, however, do have you any thoughts on that broader question?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I want to ask Matthew Gill about that aspect. In your 2023 report you proposed three new tests for establishing a public body, which involved considering effectiveness, independence and cost efficiency. What are your thoughts are on this issue and on the interaction with the current criteria that the Parliament has set?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

I do not want to put words in your mouth, but we are trying to extrapolate lessons for us from your research. In essence, are you saying that someone with a purely advocacy role is of limited value?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

You co-wrote a paper with Pamela Cox and Maurice Sunkin on the case for the Victims Commissioner for England and Wales. That is relevant because, right now, this Parliament is discussing a proposed victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. I think that the convener sits on the committee that is considering that bill, although I do not.

I read the paper with interest, and what really struck me was your conclusion. Forgive me for paraphrasing, and correct me if I have this wrong but, in effect, you put the question: if the new commissioner is not to be given statutory powers, is it really worth having him or her? For the benefit of the committee, will you elaborate a little on your thinking in reaching that conclusion?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Murdo Fraser

Good morning, panel. Alison Payne has reminded me that Reform Scotland published an excellent paper last year on parliamentary reform. I cannot quite remember who wrote it, but I commend it to colleagues.

To come back to the issue that I want to pursue, we already have set criteria for the creation of new SPCB-supported bodies. This committee’s purpose is to consider whether the criteria are still fit for purpose. I want to start by asking you all for your views on the criteria that need to be set. Are the existing criteria fit for purpose? If not, how do we ensure that, to address some of the concerns that you have raised, we are not overlapping functions that could be done by other bodies?