Chamber and committees

Absolutely. I, too, was struck by the comment that that has been identified as an issue. The benefit of having a committee inquiry is that it can take evidence and flag up issues to Parliament and ministers. I will definitely take away that message from today and investigate the matter. I also await the committee’s recommendations.

Like the committee, I have visited fair start Scotland projects and offices around the country. I was at the opening of the new office in Ayr a month or so ago, and I met disabled people whose lives have been turned around by getting work through fair start Scotland. I am sure that you have heard similar stories. It is humbling and heart-warming to hear how people’s lives have been transformed by getting into work. A lot of good stuff is happening but, as I said, if there are gaps, we want to know about them.

Many big employers in Scotland are doing a lot. We work closely with all of the business associations and organisations in Scotland on those agendas.

Small businesses and some medium-sized businesses might face some challenges. Clearly, we have to work with them so that they realise that there is a lot more that they can do. It is obviously easier for big organisations, such as banks or supermarkets, that have various departments and resources to devote to that work, but small and medium-sized businesses could do a lot more, too. We are trying to focus more on that.

We are doing more. That is why we will imminently publish the refreshed fair work action plan, which I mentioned earlier. The idea is to encourage employers to become fair work employers, which means being flexible, including by offering flexible hours and implementing other measures, such as: giving employees a voice in the workplace; employing people for a minimum of 16 hours per week so that they have a decent income to make it worth while; and paying the real living wage. There is more to do on the real living wage, although we are doing really well on that in Scotland just now: 91 per cent of people in Scotland are paid the real living wage, which is above the rest of the UK by a reasonable margin.

The fair work agenda is important with regard to this debate, particularly in relation to attracting people in the older age group who might have taken early retirement and who have since had a change of heart or are keen to do a few hours here and there. At a time when we are facing labour shortages, we need employers to be more open-minded, become fair work employers and offer more flexibility to suit the needs of older people and, indeed, other parts of the population. It is not just about older people, but there is a bit of an untapped resource there that we should look at as a country. That is all part of the fair work agenda.

We have a diverse economy—that is just a fact—but most employers, if not the vast majority, have the ability to be flexible. I meet more and more employers who are becoming more open-minded and are offering more flexible conditions and hours of work. Perhaps other members are meeting such employers, too.

The world of work is changing. The pandemic has played a big role in that with working from home, hybrid working and much more flexible work that takes people’s circumstances into account. Employers are also much more inclusive.

We fund a number of projects and initiatives to help employers consider how they can take on more people with disabilities, adapt their workplaces and so on. We also fund Flexibility Works, an organisation that promotes flexible working. Various projects are being funded at the moment to push forward all of those agendas.

As you will be aware, there has been an expansion of resources for mental health in Scotland and a reprioritisation. As you rightly said, mental health and chronic pain are the two underlying causes of the figures around long-term illness and inactivity rates in Scotland. A lot of help, which is funded by the Scottish Government, is made available for employers in Scotland to call on to help people with mental health issues, and other issues in relation to occupational health, get back into work.

It is very difficult for us to pinpoint because, as I said in my opening remarks, every person’s situation is different, whether we are talking about people with disabilities or people with mental health or chronic pain issues. They also quite often have multiple issues, which is why they are long-term inactive.

Alastair Cook might want to contribute to that, because his specialism relates to mental health.

There is low incidence of Covid in the population generally at the moment, and the inactivity statistics show that it is long-term sickness that is a challenge for Scotland. There are various surveys of samples of the population. If we take a brief look at them, we see that 0.8 per cent of people who are inactive in Scotland say that they have long Covid. The Scottish health survey estimated that 7 per cent of those with limiting, long-standing illnesses reported having long Covid in 2021; in comparison, 3 per cent of those with non-limiting, long-standing illnesses reported having long Covid. Although there are people with long Covid, the statistics therefore show that it is perhaps not the predominant issue.

That issue was brought to my attention by trade unions and others, particularly during the pandemic. The Scottish Government’s view is that we have many people with long-term illnesses and that to pick one condition and categorise it as a disability would mean having to redefine many other long-term illnesses. Further, different symptoms and conditions could be part of long Covid. The decision has therefore been taken not to recognise long Covid as a disability at the moment. Dr Alastair Cook may have medical input to add to that answer.

Does Murdo Fraser want me to come back in on that?

I add for Murdo Fraser’s benefit that the Scottish Government is very keen to work with employers so that they can provide support for employees to come back to work through providing mental health support. The Scottish Government is making available a lot of support that employers can call on to support their workers to come back. Of course, we need employers to do that.

There are some eye-catching statistics: for example, that poor mental health costs Scottish employers more than £2 billion a year at the moment, and that, for every £1 that is spent on mental health interventions, employers get a £5 return on investment. We have to get that message across to employers more, which I will certainly give more attention to. Those statistics show the importance of that.

The Scottish Government has launched the mental health transition recovery plan, and we also have the new NHS 24 mental health hub, which I am told has received more than 200,000 calls so far. That was launched in July 2020, before the end of the pandemic. We also have other platforms such as a new mental health and wellbeing platform for employers and others to call on. We are trying to help employers to do as much as they can to help employees get support.