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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You were strategy and external affairs director prior to taking up your current post, and you will know a lot of your colleagues and the Government well, which is obviously why you are now in the post. Are you able to determine which departments are doing best, which—if any—are performing sub-optimally and, if so, how those will be improved?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You can call them directorates if you want.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Public Administration in the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 24 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am sorry to interrupt, but you have got to look at what you want to achieve first, and surely you then have to say the optimal number of people who would be needed to achieve that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 21st meeting in 2025 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The first item on our agenda is an evidence-taking session on the cost-effectiveness of Scottish public inquiries.

I welcome to the meeting John Sturrock KC and John Campbell KC. We have received apologies from Craig Hoy, who will be a few minutes late because of traffic.

I thank both witnesses for their short, sharp and helpful submissions to the committee’s call for views, and I will move straight to questions, kicking off with Mr Sturrock, methinks. In answer to the second question on the transparency of public inquiries in our call for views, you said that there is

“insufficient transparency and scrutiny in particular around control over timescales and costs.”

How can that be improved?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Oh—yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

I am absolutely sure that they would, but, as has been mentioned, an inquiry might be used in some circumstances to get a minister out of a tight spot politically, rather than necessarily being in the long-term public good. It would be helpful if ministers could say, in a diplomatic way, that they want to consider something but that the criteria for having a public inquiry have not been met, because otherwise we could have inquiries into myriad different things, and where would we be then? We want to reach a sensible and optimal position that also defends the value of public inquiries as more than something that is just grasped at when people are concerned that the services that they thought would deliver for them have not done so.

Would either of you like to make any further points before I wind up this session?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You do not get many public inquiry reports that are as short as that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Right. There is certainly a clamour for transparency in this age, because this is public money that we are talking about. I do not know whether you have seen the Official Report of last week’s meeting or whether you watched the meeting, but we uncovered one very stark issue. What causes the greatest concern is the opportunity costs, not the overall sum of money. For example, the police have talked about the huge impact on finances and staff resources. We can look at stress and all sorts of other issues if we wish, but those are the two main issues that the police have faced.

We might look at all of that and say that there should, perhaps, be a separate fund for public inquiries so that money is not taken out of the specific service that an inquiry relates to. However, if the inquiries that are going on under the current system progress, and if an inquiry that was expected to take one or two years takes five or 10—or even longer—there is surely a great need for transparency, given that the budgets seem to be open-ended. A number of individuals have pointed out that it is difficult to think of another area of public life, including in life-or-death areas such as the health service, where there are no budgetary or timescale parameters.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

Indeed, but where is the justice in that? The child abuse inquiry has cost £96 million so far and has taken 11 years. Some of the people for whom the inquiry was directed at delivering justice will be long dead by the time that it reports. An inquiry might grow arms and legs and go on and on, but how does that deliver for the people for whom it is meant?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Kenneth Gibson

You have said that the Scottish Parliament should perhaps dedicate half a day a year to discussing inquiries.