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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I notice that there is a Whitehall transfer of £24.5 million to increase Scotland’s share of the immigration health surcharge that is collected by the Home Office. Can you tell us more about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have one other question. You touched on the issue of further decisions on allocations being announced when the spring budget revision comes forward. Can you update us on any change to the balance that is available for deployment and allocation in future with regard to the reserved balance that we have now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I have a question for Professor Roy, unless anyone else wants to come in, about an issue that we have covered only briefly. In your submission, you say that

“there needs to be more of a focus upon empowerment, particularly at a local level”,

and you ask about the reforms that are “hindering progress”. To what extent do people in communities want to be empowered? Do people want to have that level of responsibility? My experience from 30 years as an elected representative is that most people just want services to work efficiently and effectively. A minority want to be empowered and to have more say in their community, but a lot of people just want to get on with their lives. They want the rubbish to be collected—that is a pertinent point at the moment—and they want street lights to work, no potholes on the roads, good schools and a working NHS.

To what extent is empowerment a reality in ordinary people’s lives? How do we ensure that empowerment does not just mean passing down responsibilities, in a town of 10,000 people, to 20 to 30 people who might go to a monthly meeting?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Communities can include thousands of people, but we are talking as though they have a collective view. I think that you mean that a number of people are vocal in those communities. Is that what you mean? We can compare that with elected representatives, who have probably been elected by several thousand people in those communities.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I think that participatory budgeting has been a really big success, for example.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Unless our witnesses have any further points that they wish to add on any area that they feel that we have not covered effectively, we will end on that positive note. Thank you for your evidence, which has been fascinating. I also thank members for their questions.

Without further ado, I close the meeting.

Meeting closed at 12:59.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

I find that, on something negative, there is often a large turnout at meetings but, for day-to-day things, a very small number of people in a community will be involved, and it is arguable whether they are representative. Do they produce things such as newsletters and updates to let people know what they are doing? How effective are they? The variance across Scotland is monumental. Some people will be first class and some less so. If we are serious about community empowerment, how do we deliver that and who do we deliver it to?

Professor Mitchell or Stephen Boyle might like to comment on that. You do not have to, but you can if you wish. Are you going to take the fifth amendment on this one, Jim?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. I should also say that Ross Greer is unable to attend the meeting in person this morning, due to a Covid outbreak in his family, but I am pleased to say that he is joining us remotely.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

Under item 3 we will take evidence from Stephen Boyle, Auditor General for Scotland, Professor James Mitchell, University of Edinburgh, and Professor Graeme Roy, University of Glasgow. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting.

Members have received a paper from the clerks setting out background information, along with written briefings from two of our witnesses, Professor Roy and Stephen Boyle. Before I open up to questions from the committee, I invite each witness to make a short opening statement. I would like Professor Mitchell to go first, because he has not provided a written statement. [Laughter.] That, by the way, was not in the script.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Service Reform and Christie Commission

Meeting date: 9 November 2021

Kenneth Gibson

You talked about the political will and, in his submission, Professor Roy said:

“There are huge institutional, practical, and political constraints in public service delivery.”

Is the issue that political parties fear the electoral consequences of such radical changes, is it to do with vested interests in the public sector or is it perhaps a combination of those issues? If you were to start the ball rolling from where we are at this time, where would the number 1 bottleneck be? I would like all the witnesses to answer that question.