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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Well body-swerved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thanks.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That exhausts questions from committee members, but I have one to finish off. Section 2.3 of your paper lists the four taxes that Wales has gained in the past seven years: full devolution of non-domestic, or business, rates, the land transaction tax, the landfill disposals tax and the Welsh rates of income tax. If we look at the entire UK tax structure, a huge amount is still reserved to the United Kingdom, such as savings and dividends, income tax, VAT, national insurance, fuel duty, alcohol and tobacco taxes and inheritance tax. Where does Wales go from here? Is Wales settling in with the taxation that it has and seeing how things progress, or is it looking at whether it can devolve further taxes?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I open up the meeting for questions from colleagues.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I thank our three witnesses. I had hoped to ask a question about behavioural responses—I know that that issue is close to David Bell’s heart—but time is sadly against us, as we are well over time already, so I will call a halt to the session.

I hope to see all the witnesses again before too long; I am sure that we have a lot more to discuss on this particular issue. Once again, I thank the three Davids.

11:37 Meeting suspended.  

11:45 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Take your time. [Laughter.]

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Does David Eiser want to comment on the question that I asked? What should the independent review cover, and what should be the terms of reference for the independent report?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Yes, there is. Before I touch on the block grant, I will follow up what you said. You talked about the adequacy—that was the word that you used—of the fiscal tools. Do we have adequate fiscal tools in terms of borrowing limits, for example? Should the limit be raised? Should it be linked to inflation? Where do the limits need to be increased to give more flexibility for Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

In other devolved regions around the world, the baseline is reset every five, seven or 10 years. The previous panel touched on that. That might take into account major structural changes such as—as you and others have mentioned—in the oil and gas industry in the north-east of Scotland. Should a reset be built into any future agreement between Scotland and England and, indeed, Wales and England—or, I should say, between Wales and the UK and Scotland and the UK?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Fiscal Framework (Independent Report)

Meeting date: 11 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

A reset must be based on fairness to both sides. There cannot be a situation in which Scotland—or Wales—would always benefit. The reset would have to be based on specific criteria. That should be looked at.

Wales’s powers are different from Scotland’s. What impact has that had on the block grant adjustments? Wales has more limited powers. You said that property prices have gone up more than was anticipated and that that has helped with land taxes and stamp duty. What impact has that had? Has the Scottish experience encouraged or discouraged Wales from seeking more fiscal powers?

12:00