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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 1 February 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Michelle Thomson wants to come in.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the third meeting in 2022 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. This morning, we will take evidence from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Covid Recovery on progress in delivering the actions in the Scottish Government’s implementation plan from June 2021, which is part of its response to the findings of three recent harassment investigations, and an updated complaints procedure for handling formal complaints by civil servants regarding the behaviour of a minister or former minister.

The Deputy First Minister is accompanied, from the Scottish Government, by Lesley Fraser, director general corporate; and Ian Mitchell, deputy director for propriety and ethics.

Today’s scrutiny falls within the public administration element of the committee’s remit. The evidence session will therefore focus on the lessons that have been learned, the actions that have been taken and the progress that has been made by the Scottish Government in response to the findings of the three investigations that concluded last year, rather than on revisiting the events that led up to them. We have about 90 minutes for the discussion.

I welcome the Deputy First Minister and his officials to the meeting. I thank him for advance sight of his opening statement, and I ask him to put those remarks on the record.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I have a final question before I bring in colleagues around the table. You wish to have the process in place—more or less, but not fully—by the end of this year. Why will it take such a long time? I realise that culture might not change, but surely processes can change a bit more quickly than that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

The schematic diagram to which you referred says that, for example, building

“complaint investigation capability, to ensure confidence of those participating”

and

“Staff training on grievance policy and best practice refresh”

will not be achieved until December this year, so there are still a number of steps to be taken. There are other issues to be addressed beyond December, such as a

“Review of the processes in use, including Propriety & Ethics”.

Do you envisage that the process will not end as such and that it will be about continuous development?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Culture was mentioned often in your statement. You said:

“we are determined to build a culture in Government in which concerns are addressed early and in which all those who are involved ... have confidence and can engage constructively and fairly in the process.”

What difficulties were there prior to the new process? What changes have been made?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I am sure that colleagues will want to explore in more detail some of the issues that we have touched on. I open up the session to Liz Smith, to be followed by Daniel Johnson.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will bring in Daniel Johnson.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you, Daniel. That was the first question that I was going to ask as well, but the Deputy First Minister is absolutely right that the First Minister appoints ministers, so if a minister has broken that code and been seen to do so, or has been involved in issues such as we have already discussed, the likelihood of their being able to survive in post is zero, I would have thought. Let us move on.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Electronic data storage has been a huge boon. When I left Glasgow city chambers in 1999, I was asked politely to take home the contents of six filing cabinets and mountains of other sundry possessions that were piled up. I do not think that I was popular when 13,000 constituency cases turned up in my garage subsequent to that. Therefore, I realise how important records management is. It is important to have adequate storage and ensure that records are kept robustly and confidentially.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Implementation Plan Progress and Updated Complaints Procedure

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Kenneth Gibson

It is clear that all parties that are involved in the process are expected to maintain confidentiality at all times, including when the process has concluded. The rights of staff are protected from detriment if they have made a qualifying disclosure known as whistleblowing. What constitutes a breach of confidentiality and what is considered to be whistleblowing?

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