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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will now open up the session to colleagues around the table.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I agree, as I am sure everyone else would, that certainty is important, but as the Scottish Government does not always have certainty with regard to its own funding it is difficult to pass certainty on. Do you not agree?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Other members might want to focus on that point a bit more.

With regard to the overarching priorities in the review, you mention

“Meeting child poverty targets ... Addressing climate change”

and

“Securing a stronger, fairer, greener economy”,

and then go on to say:

“There is ... very little comment ... on the data and drivers behind these three priorities”.

What data and drivers do you feel should have been included?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I get tongue-tied myself. These things happen.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

If there are additional resource implications, one would expect that to be funded from core budgets. I am sure that you would agree that the Government does not want to undertake structural change for the sake of it. COSLA may not agree with all aspects of the proposals, but I am sure that it would agree that the reason for the Government’s measures is to improve the service overall in the long run. The Government may even be of the view that, while there may be short-term disruption, it might be worth it for long-term improvements. Is that not the view that it has, and is that not why it is going down that road? Why else would the Government be doing that if it did not believe that the measures would bring improvements in the long run for the people who require the services?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

One of the difficulties is having to disinvest from areas that are, perhaps, not so effective and switch resource. At a time when resources are not increasing, difficult choices have to be made.

I have one final question, which is about how priorities link in with the national performance framework. The submission from COSLA says:

“There needs to be an improved mechanism for assessing how we are reaching the National Performance Framework goals.”

What could, or should that mechanism look like?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Yesterday, I visited a social enterprise in my constituency, which echoed more or less exactly what you are saying.

About 22 years ago, when I was a member of the Social Justice Committee, we had an inquiry into the voluntary sector, and one of the issues that was raised during that was the problem of “initiative-itis”, whereby funding is provided for new initiatives for one to three years, and, by the third year, the staff of the project end up very nervous about whether the project will survive and spend their time wondering whether they will have to get another job and looking for other pots of funding. Often, good projects are established but are then discontinued. It seems that the situation has not necessarily changed as much as it should have done in the subsequent two decades. Is the SCVO concerned that there is perhaps an emphasis on the new rather than on things that have been proven to work and deliver on the ground?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That is a fundamentally important point. Given that we are in a time of financial challenge, I am not convinced that there will be significant additional funding—let us be realistic about it. However, if the money can be spent more effectively and efficiently, that would be good. I can only imagine how difficult it is for staff—wondering every year whether they will have job after the end of the financial year and having to wait months for the processes to work through. The situation really is unacceptable, so we must address it.

The Scottish Property Foundation’s submission says that

“resources should be directed towards areas of government dedicated to supporting economic development.”

I will put to you the question that I put to Mr Sim earlier. How much additional resource do you believe should be put into that, and where should it be funded from?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you, Liz—your timing was absolutely perfect to the second.

I thank our witnesses for their very helpful evidence. As we have concluded our questions, I suspend the meeting until 10.45 for a break.

10:35 Meeting suspended.  

10:45 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

It is very helpful for you to put a sum on what you would require. In your paper, you noted:

“That capital review projects further real terms erosion of support for research and innovation over the coming years.”

The Scottish Government had a 9.7 per cent real-terms reduction in its capital grant allocation. How can you ask for additional funding in capital when the only way that the Scottish Government can meet its capital requirements at a time of high inflation is to borrow additionally, almost up to its limit?