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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 July 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I get tongue-tied myself. These things happen.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I agree, as I am sure everyone else would, that certainty is important, but as the Scottish Government does not always have certainty with regard to its own funding it is difficult to pass certainty on. Do you not agree?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Other members might want to focus on that point a bit more.

With regard to the overarching priorities in the review, you mention

“Meeting child poverty targets ... Addressing climate change”

and

“Securing a stronger, fairer, greener economy”,

and then go on to say:

“There is ... very little comment ... on the data and drivers behind these three priorities”.

What data and drivers do you feel should have been included?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That was very helpful.

In your submission, you say:

“there is no clarity on what a National Care Service will look like or deliver.”

What would you like it to look like and deliver?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Did you want to come in, Ms Rowand?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Do either of you have a ballpark figure for the additional resource required to deliver that change?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Okay—thank you. I think that other members will want to probe that point a bit further.

One of the things discussed in COSLA’s written submission, which is a real issue for the committee and has been for a long time, is the need for

“a genuine focus on preventative approaches”.

I think that is critical. You also say that,

“With ever greater levels of funding being directed toward the NHS”,

there are other ways to tackle child poverty. You mention housing, education and employment.

Surely the politics of that is a difficulty. Say, for instance, that the Government decides that you are absolutely right and it agrees 100 per cent with what you do, and that the next time it gets a Barnett consequential it will give a quarter of it directly to local government, rather than putting it all into the national health service. Surely the difficulty is that the media and Opposition politicians would then come down on the Scottish Government like a ton of bricks and denounce it for underfunding the NHS exactly at a time when there are huge waiting lists, blah, blah, blah. Surely the issue is that, while everybody knows—at least in my view—what has to be done, sometimes the politics gets in the way, given the hostility of the media. Some people might wonder whether it is worth it, in that we cannot necessarily tell the public what changes are going to be delivered over five or 10 years, as people may say that, if the Government puts money into the NHS now, they might not have to wait so long for their operation or whatever.

How do we square that circle with what we believe might deliver better in the long run? You speak about the NHS basically “fixing the problem” rather than actually “solving the problem”. How do we do that a time when we do not have a huge amount of additional resources? If there was lots of money for both local government and the NHS, we could do it, but how do we actually manage that difficult political situation?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will now open up the session to colleagues around the table.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

When I was first elected to the Scottish Parliament in 1999, local government got a higher share of spend than the national health service, but, of course, the ageing population has largely put paid to that. A point that I would make about having a set proportion for local government or for anything else is that the Government can decide what it considers to be expenditure in that particular remit. I realise that that is the policy of at least one party, but there is always a way of getting around things.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Kenneth Gibson

But that is the $64,000 question. I am sorry, but the Government sets its priorities and if people are going to ask for additional resources, it is surely incumbent on them to say where they should come from. Should they come from taxes or elsewhere in the Scottish budget?