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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 September 2025
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Displaying 3573 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

We have reached the end of our evidence session. I thank our witnesses—your detailed evidence is greatly appreciated by the committee. Next week, we will continue to take evidence on the national performance framework.

We will take a break until 12 minutes past 11.

11:07 Meeting suspended.  

11:12 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Let us move on to the tender. We were advised that specialist technical staff were procured through existing framework contracts and the technology behind the site was also procured through an existing contract that was in place at the time. Why was the project not put out to tender?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Okay, but from here on in, are you looking to give us the breakdowns that were not provided previously?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I suggest that that is a relatively minor point, given that there are other search functions and features that people would probably use more frequently. I will touch on only one other area, because I know that my colleagues are keen to come in.

We looked at areas of spend, which I found quite interesting. For example, in 2019-20, the cost of salaries for people who were working on the project was £928,000. The amount that was spent on software was £4,000. The following year, the cost of salaries was £940,000, and £2,000 was spent on software. What kind of salaries were the people who were working on the project being paid? How many people were working on the project?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Even with people being paid £300 a day or £840 a day, it still took years to produce the website. The response from the Presiding Officer said that,

“Apart from the challenges of managing and co-ordinating a large team virtually ... members of the team”,

had to deal with issues

“such as childcare and home schooling”.

Honestly! Basically, we are spending all that money but must also accept that folk who were earning those huge day rates had to juggle home schooling and childcare. Was that not taken into consideration?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That concludes questions from other members of the committee. I have one or two questions to round up the evidence session.

On the issue of costs, I notice that the annual licensing support cost—which has not come up yet today—has increased from £54,000 to £86,000. Is there an explanation for the significant jump in cost?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I thank the witnesses for their evidence. The committee will consider any next steps that arise from today’s session at a future meeting. We look forward to considering the SPCB’s budget bid for 2023-24 towards the end of the year, as part of our wider budget scrutiny process.

That concludes the public part of today’s meeting. Under the next agenda item, we will discuss a private paper and consider a work paper.

12:34 Meeting continued in private until 12:49.  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

They do. You have also said in your written submission that we need

“a strong advocate with powers and duties to ensure”

the prominence of the national outcomes

“in policy development and delivery.”

What sorts of powers and duties would that individual have?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you for that.

Dr Elliott, you were nodding vigorously. What are your thoughts on that? In addition, will you expand on the issue of the strategic state? You mentioned the word “strategic” in response to the first question and, in your submission, you talked about the “strategic state”.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Dr French, you say in your submission:

“there is little evidence the NPF has been meaningfully incorporated into organisational routines within those organisations, or in changing decisions, promoting learning or altering policies.”

How can we ensure that that takes place?