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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I see that, in the section of your submission entitled “Soft power strategies”, you talk about

“galvanising stories which capture the public interest and communicate its values, rather than merely list statistics”.

Can you talk us through that a wee bit?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the 15th meeting in 2022 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. The first item on our agenda is to take evidence on the national performance framework.

I put on the record my thanks to all those who took part in the workshops relating to our national performance framework ambitions into action inquiry last week. I hope that everyone found the events in Dundee and Glasgow useful and interesting. I certainly did, and colleagues to whom I have spoken certainly did, too.

To build on last week’s discussions, we will return to taking formal evidence in our inquiry. Our witnesses today are Dr Ian Elliott, senior lecturer in public leadership and management at Northumbria University and honorary chair of the United Kingdom Joint University Council—we have only an hour and a half for this session; I thought that I was going to spend most of it reading out his qualifications—Dr Max French, lecturer in systems leadership at Newcastle business school, Northumbria University; and Jennifer Wallace, director of Carnegie UK. Good morning. I welcome you all to the meeting and thank you for your written submissions to the inquiry.

We will move straight to questions. The Auditor General for Scotland said in a blog on 7 September that Scotland is suffering from

“a major implementation gap between policy ambitions and delivery on the ground.”

He went on to say:

“I am not convinced that public sector leaders really feel accountable for delivering change”.

What do the panellists feel about that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

A basic thing that I referred to earlier is the fact that you have to go on to the old website to look at the Official Report. Surely that is a nonsense. I do not think that it is just a coincidence that, since the new website has been launched, for the first time in more than 20 years, members now get sent the Official Report every day. One might suspect that that is done so that we do not have to use the new website. Surely—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I understand the need for a software upgrade, but I find it surprising that hardware is being replaced.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

We have reached the end of our evidence session. I thank our witnesses—your detailed evidence is greatly appreciated by the committee. Next week, we will continue to take evidence on the national performance framework.

We will take a break until 12 minutes past 11.

11:07 Meeting suspended.  

11:12 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Let us move on to the tender. We were advised that specialist technical staff were procured through existing framework contracts and the technology behind the site was also procured through an existing contract that was in place at the time. Why was the project not put out to tender?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Okay, but from here on in, are you looking to give us the breakdowns that were not provided previously?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I suggest that that is a relatively minor point, given that there are other search functions and features that people would probably use more frequently. I will touch on only one other area, because I know that my colleagues are keen to come in.

We looked at areas of spend, which I found quite interesting. For example, in 2019-20, the cost of salaries for people who were working on the project was £928,000. The amount that was spent on software was £4,000. The following year, the cost of salaries was £940,000, and £2,000 was spent on software. What kind of salaries were the people who were working on the project being paid? How many people were working on the project?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Even with people being paid £300 a day or £840 a day, it still took years to produce the website. The response from the Presiding Officer said that,

“Apart from the challenges of managing and co-ordinating a large team virtually ... members of the team”,

had to deal with issues

“such as childcare and home schooling”.

Honestly! Basically, we are spending all that money but must also accept that folk who were earning those huge day rates had to juggle home schooling and childcare. Was that not taken into consideration?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Budget (Website)

Meeting date: 17 May 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That concludes questions from other members of the committee. I have one or two questions to round up the evidence session.

On the issue of costs, I notice that the annual licensing support cost—which has not come up yet today—has increased from £54,000 to £86,000. Is there an explanation for the significant jump in cost?