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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 July 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I thank our witnesses. Early learning and childcare is a key policy area for the Scottish Government, and I was pleased with the comments that you made about working together with the Scottish Government on delivery. As Liz Smith pointed out, it is a policy that all parties support.

Without further ado, I suspend the session until 10.55 to allow our witnesses to leave. I again thank you for your participation.

10:47 Meeting suspended.  

10:53 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

That is clearly an issue that we are trying to highlight. There seem to be different ways of counting this. ELC comes in different budget lines, which makes it difficult to look at how the policy is being implemented from a financial perspective. It is not so much about the policy. It is about how it is being implemented financially given that councils have different methods of counting. How do we know whether the money is being spent effectively, accurately and consistently across Scotland?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

The Scottish Parliament information centre has said:

“It is not clear how any concerns around the accuracy of the financial memorandum estimates were reflected in the initial allocations for the expansion of ELC, or how later allocation methodologies have been developed to reflect variation in models of delivery.”

Is that a fair assessment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

It still has not happened.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I am sorry—Daniel Johnson and I were briefly discussing our own childminding experiences.

Michelle Thomson is next.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Before I bring in Graeme McAlister, I will let Jonathan Broadbery come in.

11:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. The first of my colleagues to ask questions will be Liz Smith.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

I will ask a final question before I open it up to colleagues around the table. I ask you each to answer quite briefly. I asked Jane Brumpton whether she believed that there should be a standard rate across the country, and she said yes. Earlier, we heard that COSLA believes in local contracts, local decision making, flexibility and so on. We understand that, as several former councillors, including me, are members of this committee. Do you feel that the sector is in a more vulnerable position because of that, or do you think that local flexibility is right? If you feel that local flexibility is not right, what role—if any—do you feel that the Scottish Government should play?

11:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Financial Memorandum for the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Kenneth Gibson

You mentioned a rural uplift, but, if Orkney pays the lowest rate, the uplift cannot be very significant.

While I was looking at the figures from the 17 local authorities that we have robust data from, I was struck by the figures from two neighbouring authorities, Aberdeenshire Council and Moray Council. In Aberdeenshire, private provision increased from 20 to 36 per cent between 2018-19 and 2020-21, yet, over the same period, in the neighbouring authority of Moray, it declined from 55 to 43 per cent, which seems quite significant. I am not comparing Moray with Glasgow or Edinburgh with Aberdeenshire. In my mind, the two authorities are quite similar in many respects. Is there a specific reason why the sector in some areas appears to be growing significantly while other areas are taking the opposite path? Is it because of the issues that you have mentioned, or are there other factors at play?