Chamber and committees

That has been the case since I was a councillor in the 1990s.

On council tax, Lindsay Scott was talking earlier about the public understanding of the tax system. Most people I have encountered think that the council tax pays for all local government services. If you tell them that it is 14 or 15 per cent, they simply do not believe you—they think, “That cannae be. I pay £X a year. How can that possibly only amount for a fraction of services?” There has to be a level of education there.

One of the things that have been talked about in some of the submissions is the need to do fewer things but to do them well and in depth, and that is what we try to do in this committee. There are lots of things that I would love to do, such as having an inquiry into public sector procurement costs and taking an in-depth look at the issue of local authority funding.

We work on the same distribution model that we have had for 30-odd years, with the addition of the funding floor about 10 or 15 years ago. The issue has been that, when some political parties or local authorities have tried to change that, there has been a huge kickback because, as with council tax, there are winners and losers. I remember that the Labour Party had a proposal to change the funding arrangements, which would have cost my local authority about £6 million or £7 million a year, and there was a huge hoo-hah about it. That is probably one of the reasons why the distribution formula is almost set in aspic, like the council tax.

I will take three brief points and then move on to public sector reform, which is the last issue that we will touch on before everyone has an opportunity to make final wind-up statements, should they wish to.

Zero-based budgeting would no doubt help with that.

Gee, thanks. [Laughter.] Thank you very much for that—it is very much appreciated.

Who wants to go next?

The next item on our agenda is to consider the Building Safety Levy (Scotland) Bill at stage 2. We are joined today by Ivan McKee, the Minister for Public Finance, who is accompanied by Scottish Government officials. Although the officials are present for this session, under standing orders they are unable to participate in formal stage 2 proceedings.

I also welcome to the meeting Meghan Gallacher MSP and Mark Griffin MSP, who, like committee members, have lodged amendments to the bill at stage 2.

I will briefly explain the procedure that we will follow today, for anyone who may be watching and to remind members. Members should have before them copies of the bill, the marshalled list and the groupings, which are all available on the Scottish Parliament website. I will call each amendment individually in the order on the marshalled list. The member who lodged the amendment should either move it or say that he or she is not moving it when it is called. If that member does not move it, any other member present may do so. The groupings set out the amendments in the order in which they will be debated. There will be one debate on each group of amendments.

In each debate, I will call the member who lodged the first amendment in the group to speak to and move that amendment and to speak to all the other amendments in the group. I will then call other members with amendments in the group to speak to, but not to move, their amendments and to speak to other amendments in the group if they wish. I will then call any other members who wish to speak in the debate. Members wishing to speak should indicate that by catching my attention or that of the clerks. I will then call the minister, if he has not already spoken in the debate. Finally, I will call the member who moved the first amendment in the group to wind up and to indicate whether he or she wishes to press the amendment or to withdraw it.

If an amendment is pressed, I will put the question on the amendment. If a member wishes to withdraw an amendment after it has been moved and debated, I will ask whether any member present objects. If there is an objection, I will immediately put the question on the amendment. Later amendments in a group are not debated again when they are reached. If they are moved, I will put the question on them straight away. If there is a division, only committee members are entitled to vote, and voting is by a show of hands. It is important that members keep their hands raised clearly until the clerk has recorded their names.

The committee is also required to consider and decide on each section of and schedule to the bill and the long title. I will put the question on each of those provisions at the appropriate point.

We will now begin the stage 2 proceedings.

Section 1—The Scottish building safety levy

I call Michael Marra to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 16.

The question is, that amendment 16 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

There will be a division.

The question is, that amendment 17 be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.