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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 July 2025
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Displaying 3539 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I will suspend the meeting.

09:01 Meeting suspended.  

09:26 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 18 April 2023

Kenneth Gibson

I am pleased to hear that.

The first colleague to ask questions will be our deputy convener, Daniel Johnson, to be followed by Michelle Thomson.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Fiscal Sustainability Report)

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

We move to questions from Ross Greer, to be followed by Douglas Lumsden.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Good morning, and welcome to the ninth meeting in 2023 of the Finance and Public Administration Committee. Our first agenda item is an evidence session on our inquiry into effective Scottish Government decision making. Before I welcome our witnesses, I thank the civil servants who met us last Tuesday and shared with us their experiences of decision making in the Government. We will publish a summary of the discussions on our website in due course.

I welcome to the meeting Mark Taylor, audit director, Audit Scotland; Ben Thurman, senior policy and development officer, Carnegie UK; and James Black, fellow, Fraser of Allander Institute. Good morning, gentlemen. I will move straight to questions. I want this morning’s meeting to be free flowing. We have already taken huge amounts of evidence from former ministers and civil servants and from our adviser, Professor Cairney, so I will ask some opening questions and I want you to feel able to contribute as much or as little as you wish in response to them.

In the meeting with civil servants, there was an emphasis on key areas, such as the need for strong ministerial leadership; clarity of purpose; the capacity and capability of departments to deliver; civil servants not being micromanaged and having space to work; and clear lines of accountability. All those areas might seem pretty obvious, but do you feel that those aims are delivered in practice—in part or, perhaps, fully? Who would like to kick off?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Fiscal Sustainability Report)

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

It is on page 19.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Fiscal Sustainability Report)

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Yes. I note that your projections do not incorporate the establishment of a national care service, but you predict that social care spending will grow by 135 per cent per person, which would be fuelled “by increased ... wages”.

I want to bring colleagues in, so I will not—you will be glad to know—go through the whole document. I will finish with a question on the annual budget gap, which is discussed in what is probably one of the most interesting and important parts of the report. At paragraph 5.8, you state:

“In the fiscal framework, the Scottish Government has more control over its spending than its funding.”

You talk about a funding gap that

“is equivalent to £1.5 billion in today’s prices”

and you say that, in order to address that,

“the Scottish Government ... have to consistently reduce spending or raise devolved taxes throughout the next 50 years.”

However, you say that the UK Government is able to fund its gap, which is also significant; you talk about the UK’s

“public sector net debt reaching”

an astonishing

“267 per cent of GDP in 2071-72.”

Will you talk us through the annual budget gap a wee bit and outline its implications for Scotland and the UK?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Fiscal Sustainability Report)

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will open up the session to members of the committee.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you very much. We have gone over time. Daniel Johnson was going to ask a further question, but we will have to call it quits there, I am afraid.

I thank our witnesses for their contributions today. We will continue to take evidence on effective Scottish Government decision making at future meetings. We will take a five-minute comfort break before moving on to the next item on our agenda.

11:04 Meeting suspended.  

11:10 On resuming—  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scottish Fiscal Commission (Fiscal Sustainability Report)

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Okay. It would be good to change the 64 figure to whatever the pension age is. Is it 67? I am trying not to think about that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 28 March 2023

Kenneth Gibson

Thank you. I will open up the session. The first colleague to ask questions will be Daniel Johnson, to be followed by Michelle Thomson.