Chamber and committees

I am not sure whether I caught all of that question, but I think that part of it was about the timetables in relation to fatal accident inquiries. As the member knows, the FAI system is independently run by the Crown Office, and in 2016 the Parliament voted unanimously on the way that it was to be changed. Substantial additional resources have been given to the Crown Office to address that, and there have been substantial successes. However, one way in which we can address this issue is through the deaths in custody review. For example, instead of duplicating certain processes, we might be able to reach a faster conclusion in cases where there is no evidence of criminality.

As for Liam McArthur’s point about families, what we have taken forward as part of the review is a much more consistent approach to informing families at the right time. That sort of thing was not done in the past; indeed, we have had very good engagement from families who had been affected by that very issue. I now understand that, in the past three to four months, every single death in custody has been followed up by a phone call from the governor or an officer in the prison to the family or next of kin to ensure that they are advised as soon as possible.

Even if we do not manage to achieve what we sought, which was a singular focus on the behaviour of men and the need for men to change, and to tap into the consensus of motions elsewhere on the issue of violence against women and girls, it has nevertheless, generally, been a good debate.

During last year’s debate on violence against women and girls, I spoke about a different pandemic affecting our society—a shadow pandemic of men’s violence. It was an analogy that I think Paul O’Kane also used. Much like Covid-19, it is extremely stubborn. It is a very difficult culture to address, with wide-ranging societal impacts. As Martin Whitfield said, though, in a very powerful speech, this is about men and the need for men to change. Unlike with Covid-19, the cause of violence against women and girls is clear: it is men who predominantly carry out such violence, and it is negative male attitudes and behaviours that perpetuate it. For that reason, men must take the lead in eradicating it from our lives. Men have to acknowledge the role that we play, as the minister, Christina McKelvie, mentioned, and we must have the courage to speak up when we see negative attitudes and behaviours that ultimately lead to violence against, and the abuse of, women.

Many members have mentioned Police Scotland’s “That guy” campaign as being one that we should pay close attention to. As to how we analyse and review the effectiveness of that campaign, it is still in its early months, but I think that it would repay working out how effective it has been in changing culture. We have to do everything in our power to contribute to and accelerate the societal and attitudinal shift that is required to make women and girls safer.

Before closing the debate, I will mention what were, for me, some of the highlights, as I cannot mention every member. Beatrice Wishart mentioned some horrendous examples from her experience. Rona Mackay talked, in particular, about the situation that migrant women can find themselves in, which is appalling.

Brian Whittle said a lot of things that I did not agree with, but he also mentioned the structural and economic inequalities that exist and the impacts that they can have in terms of misogyny and the fact that those inequalities derive from misogynistic attitudes in the first place.

Bill Kidd talked about sex trafficking and the commercial exploitation of sex. Martin Whitfield made a very powerful speech. I say that because it was very explicitly directed at men, which was the intention of the debate. It is why I am standing here today: to make sure that that message gets across. Women have been saying this for generations—somebody, perhaps Maggie Chapman, talked about millenia—but it is really up to men, and that is why we tried to focus on men in this debate. That will also be the focus of how the Government votes later on.

Kaukab Stewart mentioned—as did Pam Gosal—the particular issues that there may be in black and minority ethnic communities in terms of domestic violence and violence against women.

I thought that Maggie Chapman gave a very good speech, which I will come back to shortly, and I think that James Dornan gave an excellent speech. It was good to see him back in the chamber, albeit on the screen rather than in person.

I would concede, obviously, that the role that the justice system can and does play is vital in this regard. The progress that we have made, in my view, should not be underestimated. We are prioritising domestic abuse cases at court. If we look at the cases that have gone through the courts, notwithstanding the pressures of Covid and the backlogs, the vast preponderance of them are domestic abuse or sex crime-based cases. Also, as has been mentioned, the groundbreaking legislation on domestic abuse reflects a better understanding, which will in time, I am sure, lead to increased confidence in reporting.

I think that Pam Gosal and another member mentioned the domestic abuse figures that came out. I think that everyone would acknowledge that it is quite difficult to work out whether there is an increased confidence in reporting. Somebody mentioned, quite rightly, that four fifths of domestic abuse cases are not reported and do not feature in those figures, and that remains the challenge. However, some of the legislation that has come through the Parliament, especially in relation to coercive control, represents real advances in Scotland.

First and foremost, my thoughts are with everyone who has lost a loved one in prison custody. The safety and wellbeing of people who are in prison are a priority, and we recognise that we must do more to support positive health outcomes for vulnerable people in prisons. The prison health and social care needs assessment, which we published in September, and the work that is being undertaken in response to the independent review of deaths in prison custody are key steps in our commitment to achieving that aim.

All front-line staff are trained in the Scottish Prison Service’s prevention of suicide strategy, which provides a person-centred care pathway for prisoners who are at risk of suicide and promotes a supportive environment in which people can ask for help. Individuals are screened on their arrival at prison, and when needed, the SPS and the national health service work together to support vulnerable individuals, whom they review regularly. We are also working with partners and bereaved families to implement the recommendations from the deaths in prison custody review.

Will the member take an intervention?

Rather than backing the member’s call now, I would want to take the responsible step of looking at what the provisions and measures within that would be before making a judgment. I am happy to have that discussion.

I should also say that we have initiated the photocopying of previously drug-infused items, which has had a very beneficial impact, not just on individual prisoners’ health but in starting to break, to some extent, the hold of serious organised crime. Moreover, new equipment—which has been installed at Barlinnie, for example—can do a whole-body scan to ensure that no drugs come in that way. To be perfectly frank, we have been finding a consequential increase in over-the-wall attempts to get drugs into prison, but that is no different from every other jurisdiction.

This is a continuing campaign. I think that we have made significant progress in reducing the ways in which drugs get into prisons. I agree that there is more to do, and I am happy to look at any concrete proposals that the member might want to put forward.

I am happy to confirm that we are continuing to talk to the trade unions, although those talks have perhaps been dominated of late by the pay negotiations that are going on. In my visits to a number of prisons, I have found, just as Pauline McNeill says, that the people who best understand the problem and can perhaps find solutions are those who work on the front line.

The member is also right to say that the restrictions that were necessary during the course of the Covid pandemic will have had an effect on the mental health of prisoners. We understand that, which is why we agreed to the recommendation from His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland to get rid of those restrictions, as far as possible, at the same time that they were being lifted from the general population.

The recent moves with regard to mobile phones have ensured that prisoners can be in contact with their families, particularly their children. I think that the approach has had a beneficial impact; however, there is no question but that we will have to continue to examine that and work with trade union partners to get the best possible understanding so that we can find the right way forward.

I acknowledge Jamie Greene’s point about the difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK, which is a relevant factor to look at, but I think that the situation here is more complex than is sometimes suggested. Of course, whether through deaths from Covid or the impact of Covid itself on the mental health of prisoners, particular issues have made this period more difficult. However, that is also true in England and Wales.

I acknowledge that there is a difference here that we must interrogate, so we must take the time to look at all the elements of the report. If members look at how the Ministry of Justice reports deaths in custody, they will see that it takes a significantly different approach; for example, it collates suicides and deaths, including drug overdoses, in the category of self-inflicted deaths. In 2020-21, 86 deaths in England and Wales were self-inflicted, which is an increase of 28 per cent from the previous year. However, the latest figures from the Council of Europe, which go back to 2018, show that the mortality rate in prisons in Scotland is 46 per 10,000 inmates, whereas in England and Wales it is 39.5. There is a difference in that respect that we want to get to the bottom of.

We are engaging with the NHS, the SPS and prison care networks to embed the medication-assisted treatment standards in prison settings, and additional support is being provided for the provision of health services. However, that is an on-going issue. As we heard during the previous set of portfolio questions, there has also been an impact as a result of staff difficulties, and identifying new staff for the health service has an impact on prisons, too.

I am happy to keep Jamie Greene updated as we move forward.

The Prison Service is developing its health and wellbeing strategy, which focuses on the prevention of suicide and self-harm. The prevention of suicide in prison strategy also aims to care for those who are at risk of suicide by providing a person-centred care pathway based on an individual’s needs, strengths and assets and by promoting a supportive environment where people in SPS custody can ask for help. Indeed, I have witnessed that approach at close range, especially with those who have just been admitted to prison for the first time—which can have a traumatic impact—and I have also seen the way in which front-line SPS staff have been trained to deal with that, not least in relation to the prevention of suicide.

As I have said, individuals are screened on their arrival at prison, and the SPS and the national health service will, when needed, work together to support vulnerable individuals, reviewing them regularly. I will continue to make sure that we refine that.

Instead of giving a snap judgment on the report, I want to take a bit more time to look at it, because it has a lot to say about the talk to me strategy that is being used in prisons. I am happy to converse with the member in due course on the provisions that it sets out.

Football was mentioned—I think by Martin Whitfield—but Jackie Dunbar has made a very good point. We have to work with football clubs. Some tremendous strides have been made in trying to deal with homophobia and sectarianism, but domestic violence is an issue that has not featured as much as it should have. I am happy to discuss with the member what more could possibly be done.

A direct alternative to custody and a whole-family approach that is designed to challenge and change men’s behaviour are features of the Caledonian system. We have to do more work to collect data more widely for it. However, it is also imperative that we do more to ensure that women do not come into contact with that system in the first place. When women do need recourse to the system, it is important that we respond effectively, competently and with compassion and understanding.

We know that there is more that we can do, which is why the Minister for Community Safety will push on with the work that her predecessor started in her position as chair of the Women’s Justice Leadership Panel. That panel brings together expert women from all aspects of the justice system to discuss the experience and unique needs of women and what they mean for criminal justice processes. The findings of the panel will be published in 2023.

In our programme for government, we announced that we will legislate to progress the ambitions and priorities that have been set out in the vision for justice. Crucially, that involves delivering person-centred, trauma-informed practices. I know that those things can trip off the tongue quite easily, but they are extremely important. We have some big-ticket items that we are looking at in relation to changes in the criminal justice system, which are perhaps the most profound changes that we have considered in some years. However, if we can achieve a trauma-informed, person-centred justice system, that will be the biggest possible change that we could make, not least in relation to the subject of violence against women and girls.

Russell Findlay rightly commended the women whom he met last week. I also commend the women representing the organisation Speak Out Survivors, whom I met yesterday and who are trying to effect changes in the system. Their patience was mentioned—they have been doing that for many years. I admire their tenacity and I am happy to listen to them and speak to them again.

The criminal justice reform bill will abolish the not proven verdict in criminal trials in Scotland and will take forward accompanying reforms. It will also make legislative changes, building on the recommendations of Lady Dorrian’s review on improving the management of sexual offence cases, including, among a range of proposals, statutory anonymity for complainers of sexual crimes.

Earlier this year, Baroness Kennedy published her report on misogyny in the criminal law, which made four specific criminal recommendations to reform criminal law in order to better address misogynistic harassment. Those recommendations were: a statutory sentencing aggravation of misogyny; an offence of stirring up hatred against women and girls; an offence of public misogynistic harassment; and an offence of threatening or invoking rape, sexual assault or disfigurement of women and girls. As stated in the Government’s legislative programme for 2022-23, the First Minister confirmed that we will consult on draft legislative provisions to give effect to the reforms that were proposed by Baroness Kennedy. That is part of what Pauline McNeill called for when she asked for a radical strategy. That will not just be radical; it will be a world first if we can get the reforms that we are seeking to enact passed into law. Those are reforms that society needs, and we are determined to deliver them.

I listened to the contributions in the debate, and there is some consensus that we must strive and work together to end violence against women and girls, and that men must take responsibility for their actions and demonstrate a commitment to change. There is no overnight fix. The point is that it is really a combination of millennia of discrimination, which tells us that it will be a difficult issue to resolve. However, we have to be resolute and challenge violence against women and girls, as well as the underlying inequalities, wherever they are found.

For men in the chamber and those who are listening elsewhere, the message is that we have a responsibility to change and to help others to change. For my part, I am happy to take an intervention from, and only from—sorry to be discriminatory—any man in the chamber who has never heard misogynistic or sexist comments in an all-male environment or from any man who has heard such comments and has challenged them every time. I happen to be standing, but I would not be standing to make an intervention, because I have not done those things. Neither have most men, which is perhaps why no intervention has been made. That underlines the nature of the task that we face.

If we are serious about our vision of a society that is safer and more equal for women and girls, we have to do more. A Scotland where women and men enjoy greater equality is a better Scotland for us all. Maggie Chapman mentioned that women are not looking for some knight with a sword to be a protector of women by wreaking vengeance on men who have behaved badly. What she asked for, rightly, is for men and women to walk together on this journey.

I invite Parliament to restate our collective ambitions in this area, and I invite all the men to make sure that they are not that guy.

I have already mentioned that we carry those publicity campaigns, but there are a number of other ways in which we can raise awareness. Jamie Greene’s question was perhaps prompted by a press release that was issued by the Crown Office, which draws attention to these matters. They were also highlighted when the SMASTA was published.

We do those things, and we work with other organisations. The member rightly mentions the Scottish SPCA, with which we work very closely on the matter. However, we will always look to highlight it even more, not least at this time of year, when it can be the case that people want to buy a dog or a puppy for Christmas.

Just to find some common ground, both of us are agreed that the trade is abhorrent and that we should do all that we can to limit it, not least because the very transportation of those animals is detrimental to the health of some of them.

We will continue to work on the issue. As I have said, I will provide to Jamie Greene the information that I mentioned.