Chamber and committees

I was very interested in the point that was made. My constituency is the only one in Scotland that has a school that is dedicated to the children of armed forces personnel, which is the Queen Victoria School in Dunblane, so I am very close to the issue.

Paul Sweeney also asked a question about the census data, which we will have in 2024. In the meantime, we have worked with the UK Government on a survey that asks more general questions, some of which relate to children, about people’s experiences in the armed forces. We are still to work through the treasure trove of information that that will provide.

I am well aware that, during the time that I have been doing this job, one unit was moved from Germany to Edinburgh to Northern Ireland within 18 months. The children of those families had to move with them and went into three different education systems, which is not good for anyone. Maggie Chapman made a point about the way that we treat people in the armed forces, especially if they have families.

There have been a great many valuable contributions in the debate. I hope that this will be the first of many debates about how veterans can be best assured of our support. In this case, we are talking about employability, but the same would be true if we were talking about homelessness and veterans health.

I am not making a point against anyone, but there has been a temptation for many years to try to portray veterans as being “mad, bad and sad”—a horrendous phrase. That portrayal is so far removed from the reality: the vast majority of veterans, manage to come back into society and are productive. Members from all sides of the chamber have said how much veterans can offer employers and society. Veterans are not overrepresented among the homeless, those who have mental health issues or the prison population, although there are some interesting and challenging aspects to the veteran prisoner population in Scotland. The Forces in Mind Trust, which has been mentioned, will look at that, especially in relation to sexual offending. However, the vast majority of veterans come back into society and play a productive role.

Collectively, our challenge is to make sure that that role is commensurate with what veterans have done. As I have said, if someone who leaves the armed forces as a colour sergeant, having spent 20 or 30 years in the armed forces and having accumulated all that experience and training, is asked to feel grateful because they get a job that is way below their level of experience, that is not doing right by veterans. We have to do better by them. I am keen to continue working with the UK Government and I am grateful for Jamie Greene’s offer to see what we can do to improve relations.

We have published our refreshed veterans strategy action plan, in which we made several commitments under the theme of employment, education and skills. As I have said, we will follow that through, but it is right that we are challenged. In future, I would hope that whoever is responsible for this area in the Government continues in that way. Let us have more debates and more people from all parties participating in them. Not enough people were in the chamber to hear some of the very good speeches that were made.

Can Edward Mountain state the number of veterans who are homeless as a proportion of the general population? His speech is very much like a UK Government speech. Should the work that the UK Government is doing in relation to veterans result in consequentials coming to Scotland for that work? After all, the work is being done. In this Parliament, we have no statutory responsibility for veterans, so we choose to spend the money that we spend. Should we not also get the consequentials?

I am delighted to open the debate on employment support for veterans and their families—particularly because, in the past hour or so, I had the opportunity to meet members of my old unit, 45 Commando, who came to Parliament at the request of Graeme Dey. I heard their concerns and questions about the role of the Scottish Government in the matter.

Members will know that the Scottish Government remains committed to improving support for our veterans and their families and, crucially, to ensuring that they face no disadvantage as a result of their service. We also aim to ensure that Scotland is their destination of choice following that service.

We take a whole-of-Government approach to supporting our veterans and armed forces communities across a number of policy areas including health, housing, employability and skills. We work together closely to improve and refine the support that is on offer to veterans and their families. I welcome the opportunity to lead the debate and to provide members with details of the work that is being undertaken to support veterans and their families—particularly in relation to their employment and skills.

Veterans and their families make a huge contribution to our local communities and to society, including through the vital experience and skills that they bring to the workforce. We want to maximise opportunities for them to do just that, as well as trying to address barriers that prevent them from fulfilling their potential.

As members including Edward Mountain will know, in the past, the families of members of the armed forces have not really been at the forefront of thinking among the armed forces community, but they are crucial to the good morale of those who serve in the forces. Why should they suffer in terms of employment prospects because a member of their family—usually a spouse—is a member of the armed forces?

I will mention some of the employability services that benefit our veterans and their families. For our part, we remain committed to working with stakeholders, communities and service users to design and deliver an employability system that is person centred and treats people with fairness, dignity and respect. With regard to the group that I have just mentioned—the families of armed forces members—it is crucial that the system acknowledges their experience.

It is disturbing to think that, in many recent years, nurses, teachers and, potentially, doctors have not been properly used or given proper opportunities to benefit Scotland and themselves. We should ensure that we address that.

Mr Bibby used the word “duty”. For the Scottish Government, that is a largely moral duty, although we have some degree of legal duty in relation to the covenant. If Mr Bibby thinks that we have a legal or statutory duty, is he willing to join Edward Mountain and me in saying to the UK Government that we need the consequential funding to provide further services for veterans?

Will Jamie Greene take an intervention?

I will just finish this point.

The Conservatives want to introduce a bill, which I will be happy to consider; I am happy to look at any proposals that the Labour Party has in relation to the matter as well. However, it is not yet clear to me exactly what is intended. How does Labour intend to go beyond the covenant provisions, which are enshrined in law only in as much as statutory services have to take into account the interests of veterans?

We can perhaps find out what is proposed from Paul Sweeney.

Yes.

I move,

That the Parliament acknowledges the importance of Scotland’s veterans and Armed Forces community and greatly values the significant contribution that it continues to make to Scotland; recognises the challenges that some veterans can face when transitioning out of the military, particularly in relation to employment; notes the work of the Scottish Government to address these issues and improve the employment prospects of veterans and their families; understands that poor mental and physical health may exacerbate barriers to employment for some veterans, and agrees that the Scottish Government should continue to work in partnership across the Scottish public, private and charitable sectors, and with other devolved administrations and the UK Government, to ensure that the veterans and Armed Forces community receives the best possible support and access to employability, healthcare and other services across Scotland.

Alexander Stewart has raised the issue, so I will mention that a shocking number of members of the armed forces access universal credit. That should simply not be the case. We should pay members of the armed forces enough so that they do not have to access benefits. That is crucial, because universal credit is often a passport to other benefits. If that is the problem to which Alexander Stewart referred, I am certainly willing to have a discussion with the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government to see whether we can tear down some barriers. However, members of the armed forces should not have to draw down benefits such as universal credit.

As I said, we are trying as much as we can to do joined-up work on behalf of veterans and their families. We are trying to ensure that we have a holistic wraparound package of support, which can be particularly valuable to people who are leaving the armed forces. Our key worker approach can respond to the need for more intensive health support and advice.

Also, if we can get the Ministry of Defence to pass on people’s health records to a local general practitioner in advance of their leaving the armed forces, that could save so much time and so much grief for that person. If the GP can be made aware of where the person served and their health history, that can nip continuing problems in the bud. However, all the factors need to work effectively in tandem for there to be an effective transition, and our “No one left behind” approach holds the importance of that at its core.

Military leavers can also access support through our devolved national employability service, fair start Scotland, which offers 12 to 18 months of tailored and person-centred pre-employment support, along with up to 12 months of in-work support for individuals and their employers. The support that is offered includes access to workshops and guidance on utilising the transferable skills that veterans have gained during their service, thereby helping them to identify their strengths and potential career routes.

That is crucial because, so often in the past, people have come out of the armed forces not sufficiently aware of their skills. I have heard stories—as we all have, probably—of people saying, “Well, I can run and I can shoot a gun.” However, people learn so much more than that in the armed forces; if they do not understand that, they cannot pass it on to an employer.

I absolutely agree. However, we have to work within the powers that we have. I hope that this will come up during the debate: we have developed a Scottish Credits and Qualifications Framework tool that allows civilian employers to understand, for example, what a particular armed forces training course involves and, crucially, allows veterans to articulate that in a way that is understood by civilian employers. However, I absolutely agree that, whether on health, employability or housing, the armed forces should be doing more while people are serving.

I am pleased to confirm that we have extended provision of fair start Scotland for another 12 months, which means that people can continue to be referred to that support until 31 March next year. During these times of financial uncertainty, especially for the most vulnerable people in society it is more important than ever that we ensure that people have access to the services and support that they need, so I know that the announcement will be welcomed.

It is also true to say that we are, despite the fact that most people transition successfully, all too aware of the challenges that some veterans face. Sometimes, we hear of people’s difficulties in finding suitable and enduring employment, or we hear that their experience and qualifications are not adequately understood and appreciated. That was the burden of my answer to Martin Whitfield’s question.

I am pleased that the tool that I mentioned was launched earlier this month. I am proud to say that the Scottish Government has provided funding for the Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework partnership’s new military skills and qualifications discovery tool—which is quite a mouthful. Much of that work was carried out by my predecessor, Graeme Dey, during his time as Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans. It helps employers and educational institutions to understand the range of skills and expertise that people who leave the armed forces have to offer.

It is also worth highlighting that the timing of the tool’s launch could not have been better. Across the country, skills shortages continue in many sectors, and many employers are starting to realise that there could be a huge untapped resource in service leavers and veterans, and that that diverse group, with its wide range of skills, could help to address some of the shortages. The tool can help both veterans and employers to understand the contribution that they can make.

Our national strategy for economic transformation, “Delivering Economic Prosperity”, sets out our aim to

“ensure that people have the skills they need at every stage of life to have rewarding careers”.

People can—most do—leave the armed forces at a relatively young age, with another career ahead of them. Service leavers and veterans can and, indeed, must be part of that ambition, if we are to succeed.

We need to use existing talent in Scotland, but we also need to grow the working-age population. As part of that, we will implement a focused talent attraction programme, including targeted interventions, that is supported by the minister-chaired industry advisory group, to attract key skills and talent from the rest of the UK. That will include working with people who support the transition to civilian life to encourage individuals to make Scotland their home as they leave the military. New jobs that are emerging as a result of our transition to net zero will need new thinking, and we know that many existing jobs will require new and enhanced skill sets.

The Scottish Government is committed to increasing the number of veterans whom it employs, and we continue to explore a number of ways to achieve that, including through the going forward into employment programme. We had a stand at last year’s Career Transition Partnership careers fair, where we had the opportunity to engage directly with armed forces personnel. I should say that every MSP in the chamber can do the same as I do for my annual job fair, by ensuring that the armed forces are present and are able to offer opportunities to young people and others in their area.

That commitment is why, in late 2020, the Scottish and Welsh Governments jointly funded Business in the Community to deliver a refresh of the “Capitalising On Military Talent: Everything You Need To Know About Employing Armed Forces Veterans” toolkit to include information for employers on the benefits—to go back to a point that was raised earlier—of employing military people’s family members. That toolkit seeks to increase employers’ knowledge of how to employ partners successfully, and lets them know about the particular pressures that a spouse, for example, of someone who is serving in the military might face and how they can continue to participate and progress in the workforce.

We remain committed to contributing to the Forces Families Jobs website, on which we provide links to adverts for Scottish Government jobs. We are also committed to helping veterans to gain employment in the Scottish Government, and we have a proud track record on armed forces reservists working in the civil service.

Earlier this month, we launched our working with the business community campaign to help employers to understand the benefits that veterans bring to the workplace. In the past, we have had help directly from the Prince of Wales, now the King, whom I approached personally. We certainly hope to continue that partnership in order to ensure that, by using his influence with some very large employers, we can encourage employers to take on more former members of the armed forces.

Our veterans and their families continue to contribute a huge amount to our society across Scotland. I remain committed to providing the very best support for the entire veterans and armed forces community, and I look forward to hearing contributions from members and responding to them in due course.