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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 May 2025
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Displaying 1587 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 26 January 2022

Keith Brown

I am not in charge of the business of the Parliament. It is for the Parliament to decide its business through discussion between the appropriate parliamentary bodies. As Willie Rennie knows, criminal legal aid and civil legal aid are live issues. The Minister for Community Safety and I are involved in discussions with the Law Society of Scotland and others. We will continue those discussions, and we will respond to any requests for statements.

Meeting of the Parliament

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Keith Brown

I mentioned in my previous answer the digital platform that Police Scotland, through the Scottish Police Authority, is seeking to develop. It is worth understanding why some calls are abandoned. Reasons that are given for that by Police Scotland—which, last year, introduced a range of measures to boost the 999 and 101 services—include that the police receive more than 3 million public contacts each year, and that officers and staff continue to prioritise 999 emergency calls, as they should.

Although the police have been prioritising emergency calls throughout the coronavirus pandemic, we have maintained the 101 service, despite high levels of absence and, of course, the restrictions that are due to physical distancing.

Many of the discontinued calls to which Jamie Greene referred will have been cases in which callers have been instructed to hang up and dial 999, or in which callers have decided to redial and select another option from a prerecorded menu. Sometimes, people opt to contact services through the website, or realise that they should be calling another agency. In addition, a significant number of both 999 and 101 calls are misdialled. Callers realise that and hang up.

Improvements are in train—I have mentioned the digital platform. Of course, it is right that there should be improvement. We will keep an eye on that. Of course, that is an operational responsibility for the police, through the SPA. Our responsibility is to ensure that the police are funded to make such improvements, and we are doing just that.

Meeting of the Parliament

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Keith Brown

I thank Audrey Nicoll for her question, which allows me to say that the Scottish Government has exceeded, for example, the Conservative demand for an additional £62 million for justice and will invest an additional £188 million in 2022-23. Members should remember that there is no money for Covid recovery from the United Kingdom Government; we have to find that money from within our current budgets. The justice budget has benefited from the work of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy in that regard.

The policing budget is almost £1.4 billion for the coming year and we have maintained Police Scotland’s capital budget, which stands at £45.5 million—more than double what it was in 2017-18. All that will support continued investment in the police estate, fleet, specialist equipment and information and communications technology, and it will ensure, as the member suggests, that officers have the tools that they need to do their jobs effectively and to spend time in their communities.

Meeting of the Parliament

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Keith Brown

As Police Scotland has made clear, it has taken all necessary steps to protect the critical 999 emergency service and the non-emergency 101 service throughout the pandemic, and it has recently issued guidance to the public on the different ways to contact the police about emergencies and non-emergencies.

With a total budget allocation of £1.4 billion in 2022-23, we continue to protect real-terms funding for Police Scotland, which supports further investment in our 999 and 101 services through plans to introduce a new digital contact platform, which will further strengthen capabilities in that area.

Meeting of the Parliament

Topical Question Time

Meeting date: 25 January 2022

Keith Brown

It is worth giving some context to the figures that Jamie Greene has mentioned. First of all, the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission states that the Scottish budget has reduced in real terms by 5.2 per cent this year. We have increased the budget to the police by more than 3 per cent to £1.4 billion, as I have mentioned, and we have maintained the capital programme, despite further cuts from Westminster to our capital budget.

It is simply not enough for the Opposition just to say that it wants more money to be spent on education, justice or the environment—indeed, across the board—without identifying where that money would come from, given that we know that the Westminster Government that Jamie Greene supports is cutting funding to the Scottish Government.

We have to make difficult choices. I am very pleased that, despite that grim background from Westminster, we have increased funding to the police’s resource budget. We have allowed the police to increase salaries, which has not happened down south. We have also maintained the police’s capital budgets. We are taking the action that is necessary to ensure that services are maintained.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Keith Brown

You will be aware, not least from some of the points that I made in my opening statement, that there is an on-going review on the impact of the new measure, which is looking at, for example, how the attitude of prisoners has developed. Although, initially, prisoners’ attitude was in some respects hostile, it is now much more supportive. That is explained by the fact that the bullying and the medical fallout from the prevalence of such psychoactive substances in prisons affects prisoners directly. In many cases, they are pleased that the measure in question has been taken, not least because it leaves them less vulnerable to being bullied to provide drugs for others.

We are also talking to prison officers and the trade unions; I am sure that the Prison Service will be able to say more about that. I am not aware of there being a long-stop deadline for a review to take place, but I am more than happy to continue to have a dialogue with other interested parties, including some of those that have raised objections, as the process moves on.

I would be keen to hear from Teresa Medhurst on that question.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Keith Brown

I will come to both of those points. It is important that the other questions that you asked are answered, but it may be not a good idea to—[Inaudible.]—publicly. Perhaps I could pass information about some of the issues that have been raised—for example, the number of items of mail that have been intercepted—on to the committee outwith the public sphere. As Teresa Medhurst rightly pointed out, there is a battle of wits between the Prison Service and those who are trying to safeguard prisoners and stop drugs getting into prisons, and those who are trying to find new ways of doing that.

You asked about police follow-up. I mentioned that an MOU between the Prison Service and the police is being discussed to ensure that all those items are uplifted. It is my understanding that there is no recourse in relation to prisoners who, at that point, would not have received any infused materials. That is my understanding, but Teresa Medhurst will know about that better than I do. The MOU will result in all those items being uplifted by the police. How the police will prosecute that is a matter for them. Again, Teresa Medhurst may have more information, because she will be involved in the drawing up of that MOU.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Keith Brown

That issue has been raised before; it is valid and is the subject of the discussion on an MOU between the Prison Service and the police. You will know that the Prison Service has no right or powers to confiscate those materials; it has to come down to the police. That is why the MOU, which will result in the uplifting of materials that have been infused with drugs, is being put in place.

On the previous point, which was really important, Mr Greene mentioned that family members might be sending materials. However, serious organised crime might still be behind that, and the family member could be under duress. It is a bit like human trafficking, where we do not want to punish the victims. It is a complicated matter. Mr Greene raised an interesting point about getting a better handle on what the police are able to do once they discern criminal behaviour, and we will follow that up. I am happy to write to the committee on both the matters that he raised.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Keith Brown

Thank you, convener. I wish the committee a happy new year.

The purpose of the Scottish statutory instrument is to add psychoactive substances, as defined in section 2 of the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, to the list of prohibited articles in the Prisons and Young Offenders Institutions (Scotland) Rules 2011, and to provide prison governors with powers that will enable them to mitigate the risk of illicit substances that are being introduced through general correspondence that is sent to prisoners via the mail system across the prison estate.

Prohibited articles are items that prisoners are not allowed to possess in prison, and currently include controlled drugs, alcohol, offensive weapons and other items. The amendments also provide prison officers and employees with powers that will allow them to photocopy a prisoner’s general correspondence, provide the prisoner with a photocopy of that correspondence and retain the original correspondence for return to the prisoner on their release. Prison staff will also be provided with the power to test general correspondence for the purposes of investigating whether it contains a prohibited article.

The use of psychoactive substances in prisons across the United Kingdom is escalating. The Scottish Prison Service has been working tirelessly to adapt security measures to prevent, detect and deter the introduction of contraband to the estate. However, the use of such substances is a complex and multifaceted problem in our society, and there is no simple answer to the issue of its impact in the criminal justice system.

During 2021, five confirmed deaths in SPS custody have been linked to suspected drug overdose involving the psychoactive substance etizolam, an illicit class C drug that can be infused into paper, card and clothing. Intelligence from the SPS also indicated that there has been an escalation in the number of emergency drug-related escorts to hospital and incidents of prisoners being suspected to be under the influence of drugs. Members will be aware of the emerging debates on the issue, and that Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons has been calling for the introduction of the measure that we are discussing today.

I am also aware that Families Outside, which works with children and families who are affected by imprisonment in Scotland, has written to the committee to note its support for the proposals. On the other hand, I know that concerns have been raised by stakeholders regarding prisoners’ human rights.

Many operational decisions in our prisons require a rather delicate balance to be struck to address a range of competing rights but, ultimately, the SPS must do all that it can to protect and ensure the health and safety of its staff and people in its care.

The instrument that is before you today is considered essential to mitigate the threat of significant harm to prisoners and staff that might be caused by further increases in the volumes of psychoactive substances entering the prison estate. The power that is set out in the instrument will help prison officers to prevent the entry of illicit substances into prisons and reduce the availability of those substances to prisoners. That can only help to reduce the risk that those substances present to prisons, prisoners and prison staff.

We considered options that would make the measure less intrusive, such as handing mail that had not tested positive for illicit substances to prisoners while they are in custody, but we are responding to an ever-developing threat, with new substances created that we cannot detect. Other options would not have been as effective in stopping that route into prisons for those substances. We acknowledge that there might be an impact on prisoners as a result of the instrument and its implementation, but they will continue to receive the substance of their correspondence, and they will be offered the choice of having the photocopied correspondence destroyed or retained, so that they can receive clean originals on release.

The amendments will also affect only general correspondence sent to prisoners, not confidential correspondence, such as privileged correspondence, court correspondence and medical correspondence, all of which are already protected under rule 56 of the prison rules.

The impact of not doing anything would be further disorder, illness and potential risk to life in prisons. I think that the measure strikes a fair balance between prisoners’ rights and the security and good order of prisons, which is also an essential factor in upholding prisoners’ rights in general.

The instrument has been in force since 13 December 2021, and I acknowledge the concerns that have been expressed by members of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee regarding the breach of the 28-day laying period.

In normal circumstances, negative SSIs require to be laid before the Parliament for at least 28 days before they come into force. However, as outlined to the Presiding Officer by the head of the SPS, there was a concern that, in the run-up to the festive period, when the volume of mail increases, the SPS would in all probability have experienced a great escalation in the volume of psychoactive substances being sent into prisons via general correspondence with prisoners. The instrument was laid in November after careful consideration by the SPS and escalating concerns following the incidents at HMP Shotts and HMP Addiewell involving illicit substances. It was considered critical that the process be put in place quickly, and before mid-January 2022, which is when the SSI would have come into force if laid before Parliament in accordance with the 28-day rule.

The SPS will also commit to doing everything possible to mitigate any detrimental consequences that impact on the receipt of special mail such as photographs and occasion cards. Where possible, governors have been asked to give consideration in the first instance to testing all cards and photographs using the Rapiscan Itemiser drug-detection machine to allow the issuing of the original copies.

It is recognised that the maintenance of personal connections and family contact are essential to the lives of people in SPS care and, of course, their families. The SPS has implemented a number of measures to support that, including access to physical and virtual visits, access to communal and in-cell telephones and access to the Email a Prisoner and Prison Voicemail schemes.

The SSI has been in force for about four weeks, and there has been support for the change from the prison population to date. Early indications are that there has been a significant decrease in recorded drug-taking incidents and drug-related emergency escorts in the month of December 2021, compared with the previous two months. There were 248 drug-taking incidents in October, 305 in November and 131 in December; and there were 39 drug-related emergency escorts for the month of October, 37 in November and 15 in December. The SPS will continue to closely monitor the implementation of the policy across the estate.

The SPS and Police Scotland are reviewing the current memorandum of understanding concerning the management of illicit substances found in prisons, including the investigation, collection and destruction of such substances. A further meeting to discuss the MOU is planned for mid-January. In the meantime, Police Scotland has agreed to uplift all items suspected to be contaminated with illicit substances. I know that that was a concern that was raised by prison officers.

The instrument is, of course, only one of a range of measures and support that is required. There was a co-ordinated effort by the SPS, the national health service, Police Scotland and other criminal justice partners to limit the supply of drugs, including psychoactive substances inside and outside prisons, and the provision of support and treatment will be required. It is, therefore, crucial that our approach to tackling the problem concerns a balance between security and deterrence on the one hand, and also recovery and support on the other.

I am aware that there is a range of views among members on the issue, and I welcome this opportunity to answer members’ questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Keith Brown

It would be better if Teresa Medhurst answered that, as she has a much better grasp of exactly where we are on that. The member raises an interesting point and she knows the challenges that we have had on the issue. Teresa will have the up-to-date position.