Chamber and committees

First, as one of its graduates, I should say that the University of Dundee—along with the University of Stirling, which I represent—is the best university in Scotland.

Secondly, there is a real tension here between, on the one hand, autonomy, and on the other hand, the responsibility of the taxpayer to bail out universities that find themselves in difficulty. From what you are saying, minister, I take it that you are edging towards the idea that there might be a need, through the SFC, to move a bit towards safeguarding the taxpayer’s interest in relation to that tension. The matter is not helped by the fact that many politicians and a number of the institutions themselves blur the lines—they will assert their autonomy but, at the same time, expect the taxpayer to bail them out.

I am not saying that this is the case in relation to the University of Dundee or any other university, but it cannot be the case that the taxpayer must always be hit if finances at a university are badly managed. When you talked about governance and the SFC, were you hinting at a greater protection of the taxpayer in all of that?

I am not questioning that. I perfectly understand the greater economic benefit that an institution such as the University of Dundee—I am not focusing particularly on it—can have and why you would want to see those universities and institutions protected. My point is about balancing the interests of the taxpayer with the perceived real autonomy of institutions. It is a very difficult balance to strike. In what you said about the SFC perhaps taking a greater role in relation to governance, were you recognising that tension?

I confess that, when I bumped into Mr Dey outside the chamber yesterday, I asked him the question.

Apart from large tracts in rural areas where there are SIMD20 pockets, we also miss semi-rural areas—such as Alloa, in my constituency—which have levels of deprivation that exceed those in many parts of Glasgow, but do not have the same opportunities.

Thank you. It is encouraging to hear that you are as fun and optimistic as the people of Scotland. We take a lot of comfort from that.

I move on to the situation of Ukrainian refugees in Scotland. I hosted a Ukrainian family for a number of months, and they all—apart from the dog—took English classes as well as Scots classes. The mother asked me the meaning of the words “Nae bother”, which was interesting. It is a Scottish colloquialism. The mother, father and one of the sons have managed to get jobs, while the other son is still at school, and they have found a house for themselves in Argyll.

My question is about the extension. I understand that Ukraine will want people to return to help to rebuild, but there will be people who will want to stay here. That family in particular—I will not mention their names, apart from the dog’s, which is Uji—includes children who have been going through the state education system here for two years, and they might want to think about a future in Scotland.

As you said, it is hard for people to make decisions if they do not know what their future is beyond the next six months, 12 months or a year. From Scotland’s point of view, many of those people bring important skills. Are you picking up on the same worry or anxiety because people cannot look further into the future to make plans in Scotland? The family that I hosted comes from Mykolaiv and their house was destroyed. They are keen to make longer-term plans, whatever going back to Ukraine might hold for the children. Are you still picking up some anxiety about the 18-month extension? I understand that applications have to be made in the final two weeks before the deadline, which seems absurd to me. I am interested in hearing your views on that.

Thanks very much for your answers. Your final point is very interesting.

You mentioned Dnipro Kids. My football team, Hibernian Football Club, won 3-1 last night—

That is good. You will know that Hibs had an association with Dnipro Kids before the war to help orphanages in Dnipro.

It is not really for me to say, but I very much hope that we as a Parliament will be able to see your President, if that is at all possible. I know that he is a very busy man, but it would be good to solidify all these relationships. Thank you very much, and thank you for what you are doing in your country.

Good morning. We are all here as committee members, but we are also here as party politicians. As the depute leader of the Scottish National Party, I endorse the comments that have been made by Stephen Kerr and Neil Bibby. The SNP is very supportive of the policies of the previous UK Government and the current UK Government on Ukraine, including in relation to building up defences. You mentioned weapons. We need to produce weapons to replace those that have already been used. I think that you will want to know that there is a remarkable degree—almost a unique degree—of unanimity and unity among the political parties on supporting Ukraine. That also goes for our admiration of the way that Ukraine has conducted itself. The bravery of citizens who became soldiers is really remarkable.

I do not expect you to comment on this, being a diplomat, but I and perhaps others are appalled by the turn that things have taken whereby supporting Ukraine is now a transactional thing and international solidarity with Ukraine is being monetised like a protection racket—“We will defend you if you give us money.”

However, one of the biggest issues that we have had is convincing the rest of Europe that this fight is Europe’s fight and not just Ukraine’s fight. It would be useful if you could say a few words to drive the point home—this meeting is being televised—about why the fight in Ukraine is also Europe’s fight.

I have a very brief question that will probably have a brief answer. Is there any information on former forces personnel accessing either further or higher education? I know that it will be a small number and difficult to track.

I did not expect the answer to be that short, to be honest.

Does anyone engage with the armed forces regarding resettlement programmes or such things?