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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 May 2025
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Displaying 4236 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

John Swinney

Again, that is a difficult question for me to be precise about. We are constantly reviewing the situation, looking at many data streams regarding levels of infection, pressures on our hospitals, the effectiveness of the vaccination programme and so on. Many factors must be borne in mind. At this stage, I would say to people that adhering to the advice that has been given so far about reducing social interaction before and after the Christmas period is the most effective contribution that people can make towards ensuring that we can enjoy and appreciate some time with our families over what we might call the formal Christmas period.

Obviously, the last thing that we want to do is inflict further disruption on people at this time. Sadly, that had to happen last year, and we want to avoid it this year, if at all possible. In any decision making that we undertake, we will be mindful of the plans that people will have made.

10:30  

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

John Swinney

The guidance is being formulated as we speak. Given the pace at which we are operating, we are trying to discuss its detail with a variety of interested parties, and I expect it to be available in the course of Friday. In essence, it will provide the information that those obliged to have reference to the guidance will be able to take forward. We need to consult the business community, faith leaders and other relevant organisations, and that work is under way so that we can, to the greatest possible extent, act in a manner that enables activity to continue but which contributes to a reduction in the possibility of the virus circulating.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 16 December 2021

John Swinney

I know. It is done. Move on.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

In the timetable of an inquiry, there is always a challenge between the need to provide adequate examination of all the issues that are involved and the speed of reporting. I know that Lady Poole feels that issue very acutely. She has made it clear to me that she does not want to spend the remainder of her judicial career leading this inquiry, and I very much agree with that sentiment.

I think that Lady Poole will be determined to ensure that the inquiry covers the ground that it must cover, but that it does so efficiently and promptly so that we can learn lessons and there can be the understanding and accountability that Beatrice Wishart has rightly talked about.

I cannot at this stage prescribe the timescale, but I give the Parliament the assurance that Lady Poole is keen to make as swift progress as she can and that the Government is very happy to support her in that endeavour.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

By defining a time period that extends to 31 December 2022, we expressly acknowledge the point that Mr Fairlie makes. We are in an evolving situation. That was also reflected in the question that Mr Mason put to me a few moments ago. We must recognise that there may well be changes and developments ahead of us. The inquiry will have the opportunity to consider and reflect on those issues and to make recommendations accordingly, and it will be for the inquiry to determine how best to do that. It would be inappropriate for ministers to prescribe that.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

I am not sure whether Mr McMillan is using the term “constituency” in a parliamentary sense or to describe a grouping within society. It is important that the inquiry reflects the experience of every part of the country. As Mr McMillan will know from the community that he represents, some communities have had much harsher impacts as a consequence of some of the underlying issues of inequality that exist in those areas. Those issues—from across the country—will be considered and reflected on to ensure that we do adequate justice to the different experiences of different parts of the country.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

Today I am announcing to Parliament the establishment of a statutory inquiry under the Inquiries Act 2005 to examine the handling of the Covid-19 pandemic in Scotland. At the outset of this statement, I acknowledge that Covid-19 has had, and continues to have, an enormous and damaging impact on our society. Most painful of all, Covid-19 has led to significant loss of life, resulting in heartache for all those who have lost loved ones. We remember all those who have lost their lives, and I express my sympathy to those who mourn their loss. I hope that this inquiry will help to provide the answers for which those individuals search.

In the statement, I will outline the scope of the inquiry and I will inform Parliament about the appointment of a chair to lead it. To begin, I want to take a moment to recall why we are establishing a public inquiry. The emergence of the omicron variant is a stark reminder to us all that the pandemic continues to evolve and challenge us, but that does not mean that we can delay our efforts to learn from the past. Indeed, it underlines the importance and urgency of learning lessons from what has gone before.

The purpose of the inquiry is twofold. First, it is to provide scrutiny and answers to the questions that people have about how the pandemic has been handled in Scotland. Equally, it is to learn lessons, so that we can be as ready as possible to respond to future pandemics. It is in that spirit that the public inquiry is being established, and it is how we expect it to continue, to provide answers and help us to make improvements for the future.

At this point, I express my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has played a part in responding to the pandemic, whether on the front line in hospitals and care; in keeping shops and businesses going; at home, by finding new ways to work; or in taking the vaccine and helping to protect people around them. Responding to the pandemic has taken a lot from people across Scotland, and I thank every individual who has played their part.

In developing the terms of reference for the Covid-19 inquiry, it has been a key priority for the Scottish Government to listen to those who have been affected by the pandemic, and understand what they wish the inquiry to focus on, while recognising the need to establish the inquiry quickly. First and foremost, those affected include those who have endured the ultimate loss—bereaved families of partners, parents, children, sisters and brothers—as well as people who have lost friends and colleagues. Every life lost is one too many, and my condolences go to all those who have suffered losses and hardship. They also include wider groups of people who have been affected, whether carers or people working in health and social care, councils, businesses or community organisations. We have also taken care to listen to equality and human rights groups.

In the course of establishing the inquiry, we have taken more than 400 written submissions, and received more than 80 online ideas and nearly 200 comments through an online dialogue challenge. We have met more than 70 stakeholders from the third sector, private sector and public sector. The feedback that we have received has been considered carefully by the Scottish Government and captured in an engagement analysis report, which we are also publishing today.

The feedback from people affected by the pandemic has been key in developing the terms of reference that I am sharing with Parliament today. It includes, not least, strong public support for an inquiry with human rights at its heart. The matters that people raised have fed directly into the development of the scope of the inquiry. I thank everyone who has contributed their thoughts during the process—I know that, for many, that will not have been an easy thing to do.

The terms of reference for the inquiry set out 12 areas of investigation, each covering a strategic element of the handling of the pandemic. The areas are as follows: pandemic planning and exercises carried out by the Scottish Government; the decision to lock down and apply other restrictions; the delivery of a system of testing, outbreak management and self-isolation; the design and delivery of a vaccination strategy; the supply, distribution and use of personal protective equipment; the requirement for shielding and associated assistance programmes provided or supported by public agencies; in care and nursing homes, the transfer of residents to or from homes, treatment and care of residents, restrictions on visiting, infection prevention and control, and changes to inspections; the provision of healthcare services, including the management and support of staff; the delivery of end-of-life care and the use of “Do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation” decisions; welfare assistance programmes, such as those relating to benefits or the provision of food provided or supported by public agencies; the delivery of education and certification; and financial support and guidance given to businesses and the self-employed, including in relation to identification of key workers by public agencies.

In investigating those 12 strategic elements, the terms of reference further ask the chair to

“consider the impacts ... of handling of the pandemic on the exercise of Convention rights”,

and create a full

“factual record of the key strategic elements of the handling of the pandemic.”

With the exception of the investigation of pandemic planning, the period that will be covered by the inquiry is from 1 January 2020 to 31 December 2022. The chair is asked

“To identify lessons and implications for the future, and provide recommendations”,

and

“To provide reports to the Scottish Ministers as soon as practicable.”

As I stand here, I am keenly aware of the fundamental challenge of striking the right balance between, on the one hand, addressing the wide range of questions that so many people have and, on the other, making sure that the inquiry can be delivered at speed, so that we can learn and benefit from lessons as early as possible.

To that effect, I have agreed with the chair that, as they begin their work, they will reflect on the terms of reference and suggest adjustments, should they wish to. If ministers then agree any changes to the terms of reference, I will undertake to inform Parliament as soon as possible. That includes adjustments to take into account the remit of the United Kingdom-wide public inquiry that the UK Government has undertaken to establish, as well as any issues arising in the on-going pandemic that the inquiry judges to be important to investigate. We remain committed to working with the UK Government to develop the approach to the UK-wide inquiry and expect the chair of the Scottish public inquiry to co-ordinate with the chair of the UK-wide inquiry.

The full text of the terms of reference is available on the Scottish Government website as of now.

Over the past months, ministers have been in discussions with the Lord President of the Court of Session to find a suitable chair for the inquiry, in line with our commitment to have the inquiry led by a judge. I would like to express my thanks to the Lord President for his co-operation on the matter.

Today, I am pleased to announce to Parliament that the Hon Lady Poole has agreed to chair the Scottish Covid-19 inquiry. Lady Poole is a sitting senator of the College of Justice of Scotland and has also sat as a judge in the Upper Tribunal of the United Kingdom. From my own and the First Minister’s interactions with her, I am left with no doubt that Lady Poole is highly qualified for the demanding task that has been put in front of her. I believe that she will bring pace and energy to the work of the inquiry, as well as a cool, calm head, and that she will approach experiences of the pandemic sensitively and sympathetically.

I am satisfied that Lady Poole possesses the leadership skills, integrity and deep technical knowledge needed to undertake the inquiry. I note in particular Lady Poole’s high degree of expertise in administrative law and human rights law, which is of crucial importance and is exactly in line with our expectations that the inquiry should take a human rights-based approach. I should say that Lady Poole has made clear to the First Minister and to me her conviction that human rights and equalities should be addressed as part of the inquiry and in the way it is run. I am convinced that Lady Poole will approach the inquiry in such a manner as to do justice to those who have suffered through this pandemic and to make sure that we learn the lessons that we need to learn so that Scotland is prepared for the next one.

No panel members will be appointed today. It will be for the chair to decide whether to appoint any assessors to provide expertise on particular subjects or any other assistance to the inquiry. In the coming period, the chair of the inquiry will make necessary preparations on operational matters, including the appointment of the inquiry’s key staff. Once set up, the inquiry will make announcements about its approach and progress as the chair sees fit.

I extend my thanks to Lady Poole for being prepared to take on this most important challenge on behalf of the people of Scotland. We all need the inquiry to explore the handling of the pandemic and to identify the lessons that we all need to learn. I pledge that the Scottish Government will engage, as I know that this Parliament and everyone in Scotland will, to support Lady Poole in this most important task, which she now takes forward on behalf of us all.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

Mr Mason is absolutely correct. We have just had a statement that has dominated this afternoon’s session of Parliament, which has reflected on omicron—the latest challenge that we have had thrown at us. Three weeks ago, the Cabinet had a discussion that could, in general, be summed up as us feeling that the pandemic was in a relatively stable place. We found ourselves taking a dramatically different view 48 hours later because of the emergence of omicron.

Mr Mason makes a fair point, but the Government must acknowledge that the public have a desire to ensure that while we are dealing with this difficult situation, we are learning lessons to influence policy making in the future. That is what the Government is committed to ensuring is the case. We will co-operate with the inquiry but, at the same time, we must give attentive focus on ensuring that we manage the pandemic that we currently face. I am happy to give that assurance to Parliament today.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

I have two points to make. First, the inquiry is embarking on its work with a human rights-based approach. It is important that the interests, perspectives and experiences of different groups in our society are fully considered and are at the heart of the inquiry. I am certain that the remit enables that to be the case.

My second point is a slightly more constrained one, which is that the inquiry is required by law to examine only Scottish matters. The implications of Scottish policy decisions on the asylum seeker community would be relevant and could be considered, but some questions about asylum policy are reserved issues for the United Kingdom Government. The inquiry would, by law, be unable to explore some of those questions.

Meeting of the Parliament (Hybrid)

Covid-19 (Public Inquiry)

Meeting date: 14 December 2021

John Swinney

In the remit for the inquiry, we have tried to set out the range of issues in order to define the broadest possible scope in which they can be considered. In the notes on interpretation, we set out the basis of our doing so, which is about the application of convention rights as defined in the Human Rights Act 1998. We are trying to place a human rights-based approach at the heart of the inquiry. That involves an assessment of decision making in relation to questions such as discrimination and decisions that may be discriminatory in nature or have implications that are discriminatory in nature. All those factors are legitimate issues to be considered within the scope of the inquiry.