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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

That is a very helpful explanation. Will you reflect further on the cultural change that needs to be undertaken or achieved to make the process effective? Parliament may well be able to legislate for that, but the issue is how it will become a meaningful change of practice.

One of the points that you have made very powerfully is that judicial leadership has been crucial in taking us thus far. What else is required to make sure that, when we look back 10 years down the track, we see this as a significant moment in changing the experience of those who happen to be involved in the work of a sexual offences court?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

I would like to raise with you an issue that follows on from Katy Clarke’s point about the flow of information. You chaired a whole-system review group, which was in recognition of the fact that whole-system issues are involved. Will you share with the committee what else you think needs to be improved to get us to a position in which we can look back on the reforms as a seminal moment in improving the experience of complainers and ensuring that the process operates in a more timely fashion, given the premium that you have attached to evidence being gathered in a timely fashion, so that recollections can be tested in the most effective way and when they are strongest during an individual’s experience.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Thank you for that. That strikes me as an acknowledgement that there are cultural questions that need to be addressed. The words of the Lord Justice General on the Macdonald case illustrate some serious failings in the protection that all of us would expect to be in place for a witness—that a member of the judiciary can step in to make sure that things are done properly. The Lord Justice General’s conclusions in the appeal obviously demonstrate that that was not the case.

There is the cultural element about ensuring that leadership and practitioners are operating effectively, but are there also procedural questions that need to be addressed about the operation of the courts in relation to the handling of such cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

You understand exactly where I am coming from. I would be keen to see that further information.

The only other thing that I would like to explore is the question of delays, which I discussed with the Lord Advocate. I do not know whether you were here for the question that I raised with the Lord Advocate, but it strikes me that the solution to delays will not rest in the hands of one organisation. There should be a joint effort involving Police Scotland, the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service, the Crown, practitioners and the judiciary, for example. I am interested in hearing from you what steps you feel that you can take as part of that collaborative effort to address the issues that are contributing to some of the very poor experiences that complainers have because processes are taking so long.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

It would be good if you could provide that information to us with as much detail as possible, Mr Fraser, because it is material to some of the questions that I will come on to about improving the throughput of the court system and addressing some of the issues about delays that I aired with the Lord Advocate, which you might have heard, earlier on. It also gets to the nub of whether we need to build a new infrastructure for this. I am profoundly sceptical about that, given that I imagine that there is spare capacity, albeit that it might be in the wrong place to suit particular schedules, if you see what I am getting at.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

I think that, for the committee’s benefit and to serve our understanding of the thinking that has underpinned your work, we would like to hear just a little bit more about that. Having listened to the evidence on the bill’s other contents, I find that what has really resonated with me is that culture issue and the necessity of changing the dynamics and the nature of the process that is under way. If I understand you correctly, you are telling us that cannot really achieve that by tinkering with what, for argument’s sake, is a Victorian set of procedures. Instead—and I was struck by this in your report—you need to go in with a blank sheet of paper. I think that your response to that would help us understand the cultural point that you are making.

Meeting of the Parliament

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee Report: “How Devolution is Changing Post-EU”

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

John Swinney

Will Alexander Stewart give way?

Meeting of the Parliament

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee Report: “How Devolution is Changing Post-EU”

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

John Swinney

Will Mr Stewart give his opinion on the question that I put to the convener about whether there should be changes to the intergovernmental frameworks to enable the devolved Governments to better protect the devolved settlements than has been the case until now because of the United Kingdom Government’s overriding power? If that is not to be the case—

Meeting of the Parliament

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee Report: “How Devolution is Changing Post-EU”

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

John Swinney

Will the member take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee Report: “How Devolution is Changing Post-EU”

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

John Swinney

Will Mr Choudhury accept an intervention?