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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 May 2025
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Displaying 4236 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

Public Service Values

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

John Swinney

Would not the short answer to Mr Marra’s intervention be that the Government initiated the Christie commission, 13 years ago, and has spent the past 13 years implementing its outcomes?

Meeting of the Parliament

Public Service Values

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

John Swinney

Will the cabinet secretary give way?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Thank you for that. That strikes me as an acknowledgement that there are cultural questions that need to be addressed. The words of the Lord Justice General on the Macdonald case illustrate some serious failings in the protection that all of us would expect to be in place for a witness—that a member of the judiciary can step in to make sure that things are done properly. The Lord Justice General’s conclusions in the appeal obviously demonstrate that that was not the case.

There is the cultural element about ensuring that leadership and practitioners are operating effectively, but are there also procedural questions that need to be addressed about the operation of the courts in relation to the handling of such cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

You understand exactly where I am coming from. I would be keen to see that further information.

The only other thing that I would like to explore is the question of delays, which I discussed with the Lord Advocate. I do not know whether you were here for the question that I raised with the Lord Advocate, but it strikes me that the solution to delays will not rest in the hands of one organisation. There should be a joint effort involving Police Scotland, the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service, the Crown, practitioners and the judiciary, for example. I am interested in hearing from you what steps you feel that you can take as part of that collaborative effort to address the issues that are contributing to some of the very poor experiences that complainers have because processes are taking so long.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

It would be good if you could provide that information to us with as much detail as possible, Mr Fraser, because it is material to some of the questions that I will come on to about improving the throughput of the court system and addressing some of the issues about delays that I aired with the Lord Advocate, which you might have heard, earlier on. It also gets to the nub of whether we need to build a new infrastructure for this. I am profoundly sceptical about that, given that I imagine that there is spare capacity, albeit that it might be in the wrong place to suit particular schedules, if you see what I am getting at.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Great—thank you for that.

My last question is about the issue, which we have long debated, of whether part of the reason for the successful or unsuccessful prosecution of sexual crimes has been about quality of evidence. I am interested to know your thoughts. Do you consider that there is any danger that your suggestions could lead to a reduction in the quality of evidence that is available? Is there a sense that evidence by commission is not as sturdy as evidence that is gathered in some other fashion?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

That strikes me as being absolutely consistent with the aspiration for trauma-informed practice to minimise the negative experience for a witness.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Please do.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

I would like to raise with you an issue that follows on from Katy Clarke’s point about the flow of information. You chaired a whole-system review group, which was in recognition of the fact that whole-system issues are involved. Will you share with the committee what else you think needs to be improved to get us to a position in which we can look back on the reforms as a seminal moment in improving the experience of complainers and ensuring that the process operates in a more timely fashion, given the premium that you have attached to evidence being gathered in a timely fashion, so that recollections can be tested in the most effective way and when they are strongest during an individual’s experience.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

John Swinney

Thank you very much, convener.

Lady Dorrian, one of the remarks that you made just a moment ago was, I thought, of enormous significance, and I would like to develop the thinking a bit further. You talked about the concept of embedding “a new culture”.