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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 31 December 2025
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Displaying 4938 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 9 January 2025

John Swinney

I accept the importance of the points that Mr Johnson puts to me. I read the report yesterday: obviously, the weakness in data is a matter of concern. I will take the point away and see whether there is more that we can do to strengthen the data that is available.

We have provided support to assist in this area through a couple of channels—the general allocation to health boards around mental health and psychological service support and, specifically, our adult autism support fund. However, I would be the first to accept that the type of assistance that Mr Johnson is talking about is unlikely to be met by the size of the resources that are currently available.

I assure Mr Johnson that we will explore the questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be happy to do so. I know that Mr Johnson will have engaged with the health secretary on those points, because I know how much of a contribution to parliamentary proceedings he has made on the subject.

I assure him that the Government will explore what is possible on whether there is more that we can do to address the findings in the report.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 9 January 2025

John Swinney

First, let me express my sympathies to those who lost loved ones on board Pan Am flight 103 and in the town of Lockerbie. I remember the event vividly. It was terrifying for the community in Dumfries and Galloway and for all the families who were affected by the atrocity.

Members will be aware that an on-going criminal case is under way in the American courts, so I would prefer not to speculate on possible inquiries while criminal investigations and judicial processes remain open. Of course, it is a matter of fact that the Lord Advocate has been very closely involved in the preparation for criminal proceedings in the United States.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 9 January 2025

John Swinney

In my previous answer, I made reference to the great assets of Scotland. National Galleries of Scotland is another of Scotland’s great assets, and we are determined to support the galleries. The Government budget includes a record £34 million uplift for culture, and National Galleries of Scotland received a 9 per cent increase in its overall budget. I hope that that data reassures Mr Choudhury of the importance that the Government attaches to nurturing and supporting our cultural assets.

As a country, we are enormously fortunate to have our national galleries and the collections that they nurture on our behalf. The Government will engage constructively with the national galleries to ensure that they are well supported through the challenges that lie ahead.

I come back to my key point, which I made to Mr Choudhury before—or, maybe, around the time when—the Government’s budget was set out, which is that we need votes to get the Government’s budget through. In that answer, I promised him that there would be a big settlement for culture, and I have delivered on my word. All that he needs to do now is vote for the Government’s budget, then we will all be happy.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 9 January 2025

John Swinney

I am grateful to Mr McMillan for his question and I pay tribute to the campaign work that he has undertaken on the issue for some time.

The consultation to which he refers has been brought forward by the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health in order to develop proposals for robust and effective regulation. The consultation closes on 14 February, so I encourage anyone who wishes to express a view to contribute to formulation of the approach to the issue.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 9 January 2025

John Swinney

I have made it clear, as the finance secretary did in the budget statement in December, that the Government’s tax proposals will not change from what is in the budget and that there will be no further tax changes from this Government in advance of the 2026 elections. I hope that that gives some tax certainty, if Mr Findlay is genuinely seeking that clarity.

As for dialogue with other political parties, I go back to what I said in my previous answers. The Government’s door remains open for dialogue about the contents of the Government’s budget, because I want to have as much agreement as I can possibly construct in this Parliament to support the budget measures so that we can all work together, as we have a statutory duty to do, to eradicate child poverty in Scotland. The support of any member who is willing to help the Government in our efforts to eradicate child poverty will be welcomed by me.

Meeting of the Parliament

Child Poverty

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Swinney

I take nothing for granted about the budget process. The discussions that have been constructively engaged in by the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the Labour Party, Alba and the Conservatives will continue so as to ensure that there is a parliamentary majority for the budget. I am interested in taking as many members of the Parliament with me as possible in putting in place a unifying budget that will meet the needs of the people of Scotland. The contribution of Mr Rennie and his colleagues will be welcome in that process.

Just for the record, despite what may be said on “Good Morning Scotland”, I will wait until I hear from the Presiding Officer that the Budget (Scotland) Bill has been passed at stage 3 before I will rest easy on such questions.

One of the key elements of the Government’s budget is about maximising the interventions and actions that we can take to eradicate child poverty. One of the proposals that we have brought forward with determination is to take steps to remove the two-child limit, which has been a pernicious attack on some of the most vulnerable in our society.

Analysis from the Child Poverty Action Group estimates that abolishing the two-child cap in Scotland could lift 15,000 children out of poverty. Everyone in the chamber knows my preferred solution to that challenge: as an independent country, we should be able to take these decisions and have the economic and fiscal levers that other Governments should be exercising to tackle inequalities. However, where those actions are not undertaken, we will do all that we can with the measures that we have in place to address the issue.

In the coming financial year, we will commit £3 million to develop systems to mitigate the two-child cap in 2026. That is alongside other investments that we are making to mitigate United Kingdom Government policies such as the bedroom tax—policies that should have been removed by a Labour Government but which continue to be a burden. This Government will stand alongside the people who need its support in addressing the impacts of child poverty.

The draft budget for 2025-26 prioritises wide-ranging action to eradicate child poverty now and in the future. It is a statement of our intent to deliver real and lasting progress for the children and families of Scotland. It is a budget of delivery and hope.

To address points that Mr Rennie has just put to me, I note that I am acutely aware that the Government operates in a minority position. However, the whole Parliament has supported legislation that puts in place targets to significantly reduce child poverty. We need to reach parliamentary agreement to enable us to make progress on those objectives and legislative requirements. I invite members of the Parliament, regardless of their politics and views on other questions, to recognise that at the heart of the budget is the most ambitious set of measures that we can put in place to eradicate child poverty with the resources that are available to us. If we are all going to be true to our commitment in legislation to eradicate child poverty, I invite members of the Parliament in all political parties to support the budget and to do everything that we can to eradicate child poverty.

I move,

That the Parliament notes the investments outlined in the draft Scottish Budget for 2025-26 that focus on eradicating child poverty as a national mission and the single greatest priority for the Scottish Government, including continued investment in key policies such as funded early learning and childcare, concessionary travel for those under 22, employability services and social security; further notes increased investment in the Affordable Housing Supply Programme and investment in breakfast clubs and to support the expansion of free school meals; recognises that the Scottish Government’s efforts to tackle child poverty are being undermined by the social security policies of the UK Government; welcomes the Scottish Government’s commitment to spend £3 million to develop the systems to deliver the mitigation of the two-child cap in 2026; acknowledges analysis from the Child Poverty Action Group estimating that abolishing the two-child limit could lift 15,000 children in Scotland out of poverty; recognises that the measures in the draft Scottish Budget 2025-26 will help to drive progress towards this national mission, and calls on the UK Government to match the ambition of the Scottish Government and abolish the two-child limit and benefit cap at the earliest possible opportunity.

15:17  

Meeting of the Parliament

Child Poverty

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Swinney

Will Mr O’Kane take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Child Poverty

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Swinney

I thank Liz Smith for giving way again, but she ignores the fact that, since we have held office, the Government has consistently balanced the budget and lived within the resources that we have had available to us. It is our obligation and our duty to put to Parliament a budget that is perfectly sustainable in the financial year, and we have done so.

Therefore, I struggle to understand how the Conservative position can have any logic to it, because the Government is living within its means and is supporting people to overcome the negative effects of child poverty. Liz Smith and I agree that child poverty needs to be tackled, but her leader wants to slash expenditure.

Meeting of the Parliament

Child Poverty

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Swinney

Will Russell Findlay take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Child Poverty

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

John Swinney

When I became First Minister, I made it abundantly clear that the foremost priority of my Government would be the eradication of child poverty in Scotland. I reiterate that commitment today, at the start of 2025.

There can be no acceptable number of children living in poverty—not in a prosperous, modern society such as ours. Poverty limits a child’s opportunity, their health and their wellbeing. Its wider impacts stretch across every aspect of our community and span generations. It shackles our economy and strains our public services. Put bluntly, it holds us all back.

My Government will be relentlessly focused on acting to meet the ambitious targets that were agreed unanimously in Parliament, and I have committed every aspect of my Government to achieving them. Indeed, our action is already making a real difference to the lives of families. Modelling that was published in February estimates that the Government’s policies will keep 100,000 children out of relative poverty in 2024-25, with relative poverty levels 10 percentage points lower than they would have been otherwise. That includes keeping an estimated 60,000 children out of relative poverty through investment in our Scottish child payment. That payment is available to families in Scotland only; such a payment is not available in England and Wales. That is a key commitment of, and a key policy delivered by, the Scottish Government.

Child poverty is a deeply entrenched systemic problem, and it continues to affect too many children in Scotland. We must not only sustain our efforts but redouble them, and we must pioneer new and innovative ways of acting to achieve the aims that we have all agreed as a Parliament.

In the programme for government in September and in my November speech on my approach to government, I outlined how I propose to use the powers of Government to tackle the issue. It is not through quick-fix sticking plasters; I favour tackling the root causes of child poverty by working collaboratively within our communities, from the bottom up.

This year’s budget makes that approach possible. In it, we commit more than £3 billion to a range of actions to tackle poverty and the cost of living for households. Yesterday, I described it as a budget of “delivery and hope”. I said that because it delivers the things that make the biggest difference to people today, and it lays the foundation for a hopeful future in which Scotland can grow and prosper for years to come.

Because family poverty is child poverty, our approach to delivery addresses the issues that have a direct and immediate impact, day in and day out, on families in Scotland. That begins with the essentials: warm, safe homes, good jobs and money in people’s pockets.

Next financial year, we will invest £760 million to boost delivery through the affordable housing supply programme. That will support housing providers to deliver at least 8,000 properties for social and mid-market rent and low-cost home ownership. It will help to tackle the housing emergency by supporting immediate actions that will return existing housing stock to use, through addressing voids and increasing acquisitions, and it will ensure that families have secure and affordable homes in which to raise their children. We will also invest an additional £4 million to enable local authorities, front-line services and relevant partners to prepare for the new homelessness prevention duties. Also, because the best and most sustainable route out of poverty is good employment, we are investing up to £90 million in the delivery of devolved employability services. That includes specific funding to continue supporting parents to enter employment and to embed child poverty co-ordinators in local authorities.

We are investing more than £2.6 billion to support public transport and to make our transport system available, affordable and accessible to all, helping to connect parents to employment, training and skills opportunities and the services that they need to navigate their way out of poverty. That includes providing £415 million for concessionary bus travel, which enables access to free bus travel for 2.3 million people across Scotland.

The cornerstone of our support for families, however, is our investment in social security. Many families are struggling with the cost of living, and the budget provides them with immediate support for the day-to-day cost of living. We have made the decision to invest roughly £6.9 billion in benefits expenditure. That is almost £1.3 billion over and above what Scotland receives from the United Kingdom Government for social security, and it includes £644 million in benefits and payments that are available only here in Scotland and are not available in any other part of the UK.