Chamber and committees

I look forward to seeing the strategy and I hope that it is produced soon, and not far into the future.

I think that we agree with that. [Laughter.] Whether we are talking about environmental and rural issues, economic issues or trade issues, we cannot be experts on all those areas. The question is how issues in those areas are flagged so that we achieve effective cross-parliamentary working. That is really important.

I appreciate that. Are we at the point at which we need a strategy to pull things together so that people know what will happen next and the process is accelerated, given the points that the finance secretary made about the Christie principles? The evidence that we got from University College London included mention of the importance of access to the arts for children and people who have mental health issues, and use of the arts to reduce physical decline in older people.

Thanks for that. This is about the buildings and land, as well as the staff, so thinking about those budget lines is critical.

It has been said that this is about the whole Government responding. When we had the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care at committee, there was a lot of talk about social prescribing, as the convener has said. One thing that has come out in relation to the resource framework is local expenditure on culture. Evidence from Audit Scotland said that, if we look at the local government benchmarking framework data, we see that culture and leisure services have taken the biggest cut—almost 30 per cent—over the past decade. In the local government budget, how will we fill that gap? There is a need for social prescribing, including using local community arts facilities. Who will pay for that, given the huge pressures on local authorities? Can the finance secretary comment?

I will follow on from Donald Cameron’s question. I take your point about the hope that visitor numbers go up as we recover from the pandemic, but I am concerned by the properties that Historic Environment Scotland manages that are not reopening. The discussion paper asks what will happen to those properties. Should we let them face managed decline because of climate change? They are part of our history and culture. You say that we should not worry because it is only a spending review and not a budget. Is that a suggestion that capital investment might flow to Historic Environment Scotland so that it could repair and keep those buildings fit for purpose?

Jess Sargeant, do you want to come in on interparliamentary work and how to make it work better?

Catherine Barnard has pointed out the challenge of scrutinising hundreds of pieces of legislation. In our report on the UK internal market, we highlighted the need for more scrutiny of legislation by the Scottish Parliament and the other devolved Parliaments, and the time issue is also critical. How would you suggest we retrofit the system to include parliamentary accountability and transparency in the processes that come through the TCA?

That is helpful, but I would point out that in our “UK Internal Market Inquiry” report, we came to the conclusion that, although such scrutiny is difficult, it is actually very important. As a couple of you have illustrated today with regard to business and trade, goods might well start off in one country but the process is completed in another country, and we need clear technical arrangements so that businesses and environmental non-governmental organisations can lobby us as parliamentarians and we can raise issues in which our constituents are interested.

Again, that answer was very useful. Do any of the other witnesses want to comment on the importance of parliamentary scrutiny and how we might deliver the transparency that we need in implementing the TCA?

I take it, then, that there is agreement that this is really important. The challenge is how we deliver it in practice.

It is interesting for us in Scotland to note Dr Zuleeg’s comments about a parallel discussion happening in the EU with the involvement of the European Parliament. That is something for us to take away in respect of our relations with European parliamentarians, devolved Parliaments across the UK and the UK Parliament. The point, perhaps, is: if you do not ask, you do not get.

I, too, welcome the fact that responses were provided to several of the points that we made in our report, but I was disappointed in the responses in three areas in particular.

The fact that the Scottish Government did not agree with our recommendation that it update its website to give us information about where it intends to align with EU law presents a challenge not just for us as a Parliament, but for stakeholders. They need to understand what changes are likely to be made, particularly in the context of the discussion that we have just had with witnesses about the challenge of tracking the TCA, and how important that is for businesses, the agricultural sector, the fishing industry and environmental lobbyists, given the need to get legislation right.

I was concerned that there was not agreement on flagging what consultations had been carried out, and by the suggestion that that was not proportionate. That cuts across the transparency and accountability element.

I would like us to request further comment from the Government, because it avoided commenting directly on the proposal that we made for a memorandum of understanding between the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament on the delivery of effective scrutiny. I am very conscious that a lot of good work has been done by our clerks and Scottish Government officials, but a memorandum of understanding would provide further clarity and would help people to manage timescales—for example, on how keeping pace powers could be effectively monitored for the purposes of transparency.

I note that it was not only our committee that considered the consultation issue to be important; the Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee did so, too. That is important for us to note.