Chamber and committees

Does Fred or Stuart want to come in?

Right. Obviously, we need to ask social work what is going on there. Do you have you any ideas? There is a potential human rights issue here. The courts run until 7 in the evening. If someone is taken at 2 in the afternoon and gets the benefit of social work, and someone else is taken at 5.30 and does not, that is a clear omission of the system.

Good morning. I have two questions: one to David Mackie and one to Wendy Sinclair-Gieben. I will begin by thanking the Howard League for the work that it has done in highlighting not just the remand population, which first drew my attention to this horrendous issue for Scotland, but the conditions in which prisoners have been held on remand in particular. The committee is at one on this, and we have discussed it with the chief inspectorate. It is a situation that we all want to get out of. I just want to thank you for that.

In your submission, David, you say that you would like to see the bill also include provisions for discretion where a case is unlikely to result in a custodial sentence. Can you say more about that? I imagine that you would not know in all cases whether there is likely to be a custodial sentence, but anything that you can tell the committee about how that would operate would be helpful.

Good morning. Thank you for the evidence so far, which has been really focused and has helped me to understand some key points. It strikes me that the system is not joined up; there is also an issue with resources.

Last year, the committee questioned the remand figures—those are of concern to the committee, and we raised that with ministers. The response was that the bill would go some way to reducing the remand population. I am sure that you what you are saying is correct, but—perhaps this is not clear in the bill—I always understood that to be what we are attempting to do.

You and others have raised a number of issues in which clarity is needed, including around what a public safety test is. We need to get into the detail of that. One of the issues that came up when we visited a court on Monday was whether there would be a public safety test for theft or housebreaking cases, so it is really helpful to hear your comments.

I have a couple of questions for you, Joanne. You mentioned 12-month sentencing, young people and the approach of the Crown. In addition, Fred said that the Crown no longer seems to have discretion. Does the centralised marking system have anything to do with that? I have had concerns about the system because marking is no longer done locally—as you know, it can end up anywhere. There is a real disconnect, with fiscals marking cases from, for example, Glasgow, which I represent, but who do not know the area. I wondered whether you thought that that might be one of the reasons for the decisions that are being made.

The committee noted that, in one case, where the witness had failed to appear on several occasions, the sheriff asked the Crown whether the witness had been prepared for the trial in the first place, which was obviously a determining factor in the sheriff's mind. I think that the fiscal said, “Well, there are no notes here to tell me one way or the other”. They only have the notes that are in front them. That is helpful to know.

Thank you. Stuart, do you want to add anything?

Thank you. Maybe you do not know the answer to this, but my understanding is that fiscals have an individual commission when they are appointed, which is meant to give them discretion, as a fiscal, on behalf of the Lord Advocate. Is that your understanding?

I was thinking more about looking at the profile of remand prisoners. What would it look like today for categories of offences? What would be the balance between petition cases and summary cases? I imagine that there are more petition cases. What would the balance be between High Court cases and crimes of theft or dishonesty? Are you aware of whether that information is available?

Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, this might be another question that you cannot answer but, after the visit to the Glasgow sheriff court on Monday, the committee was interested in the profile of remand prisoners and the distinction between summary cases and petition cases. In Glasgow sheriff court on Monday, in summary court, most of the 13 cases that we saw were bail supervision cases. That was the trend for the day. I believe that those figures are available. Do you think that it is important for us to analyse the remand profile to try to understand it? It is still a bit mystifying why, as David Mackie mentioned, the overall remand population is around 29 per cent. It was only one day in Glasgow sheriff court, but, looking at summary justice, the sheriff was very particular about applying that principle of remanding only where there was no other way that the sheriff could go in respect of bail supervision. Will you comment or give us any information on that?

I have a quick question to help me understand a point about the case involving the 21-year-old that you mentioned, Joanne. You said that social work finished at 5.30; did that mean that that person was at a disadvantage?