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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 September 2025
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Displaying 1840 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Would it not be fair, therefore, for the Government to look at the majority issue?

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I totally acknowledge that. However, it is that issue that I am questioning you on. Conviction is possible on a majority of one. Surely, without any bias in favour of one view or the other, you can see that, if one of the verdicts is taken away, it would be fair to look at the ratio of the jury, in order to create a balanced system. You might come up with a different answer—such as eight or 10—but is it not fair to look at the issue?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Would you acknowledge that the committee is required to look at changes that affect all trials, including for rape, murder and everything else?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Yes, I have acknowledged that—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

You then have to decide from there. In the current system, if you have that doubt, you choose which verdict to give.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I note your point about the Faculty of Advocates. Last week, we heard evidence from Professor Fiona Leverick, who expressed the same concerns about removing the third verdict, or one of the verdicts. She said that she was concerned about the current proposals because they are out of step with the rest of the world. I wondered whether you had heard that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I was just asking whether you knew what Fiona Leverick had said to the committee. She is not from the Faculty of Advocates. I was just pointing out that she gave that evidence to the committee, and we have to consider it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Earlier, you said:

“If you accept that the not proven verdict might be contributing to wrongful acquittals”.

The Government has not said that. That might explain where it is coming from. The Government has explicitly said to the committee that it is not, through the proposals, trying to make any change to the number of acquittals.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

I have a few questions for Sandy Brindley. Would you accept that the committee has been asked to scrutinise the issue and to make a decision in relation to all cases, not just rape cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 6 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Yes, I understand that, but a judge or sheriff also say, “If you’ve got any reasonable doubt in your mind, you shouldn’t convict.” Is that right?