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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 January 2026
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Displaying 2154 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament

General Question Time

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

In answer to a question from Annie Wells last week, the cabinet secretary said:

“Unlike other major cities in Scotland, Glasgow City Council does not have an age limit on taxis, so there is a higher proportion of older... taxis”.—[Official Report, 9 May 2024; c 3.]

I would like to highlight to the cabinet secretary the fact that, at a recent meeting of taxi drivers in the city, older workers with older vehicles said that they were unable to finance a new vehicle and were ineligible for a grant from Glasgow City Council. Hundreds of older drivers are in that situation, but the city council has offered them no options, so they will be forced out of business—and we are talking about up to 300 licences here. Does the cabinet secretary agree that this is unfair to older drivers, who do not have another option? They are experienced drivers, and they will be a loss to the city. Indeed, not granting a further exemption might be considered as indirect discrimination against older drivers.

Meeting of the Parliament

Horizon Information Technology Prosecutions

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

I thank the Lord Advocate for coming to the Parliament and for the full and frank responses that she has given so far.

It is clear from the Post Office Horizon inquiry that senior Post Office officials came to Scotland in 2013 because they were concerned that procurators fiscal were, rightly, questioning the reliability of the Horizon system and because of the recommendation by procurators fiscal at the time that all cases based on the Horizon system should be stopped. After that meeting, the policy changed to one based on considering case by case. Why were Crown Office officials satisfied to change the policy at the time, having asked for further evidence to support the integrity of the Horizon system but not yet having it?

I thank the Lord Advocate for her letter to me this week. In it, she notes that, regrettably, four cases have been identified that were prosecuted after that meeting in 2013 and that resulted in convictions, on the basis of admissions or pleas of guilt. As we know, however, many sub-postmasters pled guilty to avoid jail. We should have all the factors fully explained so that we can learn lessons.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. Can you clarify something that you said to Sharon Dowey? This matter came up in previous evidence. In a particular case that the committee looked at, the police officer was, I think, suspended or put on restricted duties, and he was not allowed to know what the allegations against him were. The suggestion in that evidence session was that there might be legal reasons for that. What is the position on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

And, if you think there is a reasonable inference of criminality, that is where the PIRC—

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

So, in all other cases, there is a certain standard of sufficiency that is applied, but, when it comes to police officers, you have to do something completely different. Is that not quite an odd approach for a prosecutor to deal with?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

I am trying to get my head around all the different categories of complaints and criminality that police officers might be accused of. You might have alluded to that earlier in response to one of my colleagues. I suppose that a typical example of a complaint might be when a member of the public says that excessive force was used in the middle of an arrest and that, in effect, they have been assaulted. Given that low test, is there not quite a fine line in those cases?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

That is helpful.

I am interested in a specific area in relation to public complaints against the police, which was mentioned in a previous evidence session. The issue concerns instances of poor investigatory processes within a police investigation—as were evident in the Emma Caldwell case, for example, where, 20 years later, we can see that the police followed lines of inquiry that do not seem to stand up. In such instances, are there processes currently, or are processes proposed in the bill, that will allow a family to complain about the quality of an investigation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

I can see how tricky that might be. Do you think that there might be other checks and balances in the system now that would prevent an investigation from going down completely the wrong path for so long?

11:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Does a member of the public report that to the PIRC first? Is that how it works?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

How can that still be a misconduct issue? Perhaps you cannot answer that. I am struggling to understand why Police Scotland still pursues the officer for misconduct on something that a court has dealt with. I can understand if there were other separate issues involved, because those would then have to be dealt with. However, if it is a simple case of an assault, surely the matter is dealt with at court—I am talking about cases in which the officer is found not guilty.