Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 2 September 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1839 contributions

|

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

The Scottish Prison Service has said that it will no longer give any data on where transgender prisoners are. We can debate whether transgender prisoners can be identified and whether some high-profile cases will get into the press anyway, but given that our job is to scrutinise the policy, it seems a bit unfair that it is okay for such information to be in the Daily Record. I presume that the SPS would still have to answer a freedom of information request as to where transgender prisoners were. As the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, are you not concerned that the committee cannot do its job if the SPS is no longer willing to give us data on where transgender prisoners are?

Before you answer, cabinet secretary, I will make one point. I fully recognise that a balance has to be struck in relation to the privacy and dignity of transgender people—I am not attacking that at all—but there have been many very difficult and publicly controversial cases, including the one involving Isla Bryson. How can we do our job if we do not know whether those people are in the female estate? Are you content that the press will just be able to report such things but we, as parliamentarians in a democracy, cannot know where a transgender prisoner is in the estate? That seems absolutely crazy to me. Are you comfortable with the SPS’s decision?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

Can you say which law you are referring to?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

Why did that not apply before now, in that case? Until now, we got that information, but now we cannot.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

What was the motive?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

What was the motive for reconsidering something as important as data protection around what is a very controversial public policy area?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

It would be helpful. I am just trying to understand, for completeness. As parliamentarians, we are trying to do our jobs and scrutinise this very important area of public policy. Whatever views we take on it, the change will deprive us of information that we used to have. It feels like a sword coming down, because yesterday we could get the information, but today we cannot. I would like to understand why.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

In the interests of time, I would find it helpful if you would elaborate a bit further on what you have said are exceptional circumstances. Will you stick by that? The language is important. I understand that exceptional circumstances would be exceptional. I know that you cannot always guess what they might be, but I would be grateful if you would provide that information.

13:45  

I have a further question. Most parliamentarians in the Scottish Parliament have taken part in debates about violence against women, and we are agreed that men are the problem—male violence is the problem. When a transgender woman has committed a serious violent offence against a man, would that not suggest that they pose a risk to women? I wonder why you did not include that category, if you like. Does that make sense?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Transgender Prisoners

Meeting date: 11 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

So, a female officer could go to her line manager and say, “I am not happy to search that person,” and that would be okay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you very much for your insights. I know that you have been involved with this for a long time, and I thank you for that, too.

I was surprised to hear you talk about a two-tier system. Could you elaborate a bit more on that? In my lines of questioning to the Lord Advocate and Lady Dorrian—and I was very content with their answers—I was suggesting that an important distinction would still have to be made with regard to the seriousness of crimes. Indeed, that is why we have a High Court and a lower court—that is, the sheriff court. My understanding is that cases go to the lower court, because they do not require to go to the High Court. When you talked about the system being two-tier and the proposed court creating a level playing field, were you referring to the trauma-informed aspect? It would concern me if it were being suggested that we wrap up all the crimes into one court, given that some are more serious than others.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

I will not go into this today, but aspects such as rights of audience and who prosecutes will, by necessity, involve the creation of two tiers.