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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 July 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

The point, convener, is that at the moment it is not a decision for the prosecutor. Murder is automatically tried in the High Court. No Lord Advocate or prosecutor can take it to any other court, because it is the highest court. My concern remains.

I realise that my question should be directed to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, because the bill leaves it open for a prosecutor to allow the prosecution of a murder in the sexual offences court. That is a matter for the cabinet secretary.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is that your evidence?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

I misunderstood what you said to Russell Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

My final question relates to that. There have been many discussions in the Parliament about how we tackle the crime of rape, for which there seems to be a low conviction rate. It looks as though the specialist sexual offences court would not have the same status or the same rights of audience as the High Court. I assume that it has been designed that way to reflect the status of rape as a serious crime that, as a plea to the Crown, can be tried only in the High Court. If the bill does not reflect your recommendations about rights of audience, will you be concerned that the specialist sexual offences court will look like a lower court?

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

First, I commend you for the work that you have done and the way that you have presented it to the committee.

Criminal Justice Committee

Management of Sexual Offences Cases

Meeting date: 10 January 2024

Pauline McNeill

It is clear that there is a need for change—I am absolutely clear about that. I want to give some context to my question. You have made the case for a specialist court, but I am interested in where it would sit in the hierarchy—excuse my terminology, but that is the way that I see it as a layperson. I am interested in what the status of the specialist court would be and whether you think that the bill as drafted reflects what you had intended in your report.

For example, the report says that the rights of audience in a sexual offences court should be limited to advocates and solicitor advocates, but that is not reflected in the bill. Given that I convened the committee at the time, I can go as far back as the reforms when Lord Bonomy not only produced the report on preliminary hearings but proposed extending the sentencing powers of sheriff courts. There is a parallel here for me. What sticks in my mind is that, when he proposed extending the sentencing powers of sheriff courts to five years, he was clear that the sanctioning of counsel for serious cases should still be allowed. You will know that it is now very rare for counsel to be sanctioned in the sheriff court.

I think that there is a very good case for having the specialist court, but my concern is about the change in the rights of audience if the court is created. Under the bill, solicitors would be able to represent an accused person not in cases of rape or murder but for serious sexual offences. Do you have any concerns about whether the bill reflects what is said in the report about maintaining the high status of the court? How do you see the status of the specialist court in relation to the High Court?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. Stuart Murray, you had an exchange with Katy Clark about the research that the Government is relying on. The policy memorandum is quite clear that the evidence used for removing the verdict is the research involving 900 mock jurors. Do you think that the Government would be taken more seriously on that research if we addressed the question of the Contempt of Court Act 1981 and, perhaps, as a part of this bill, legislated to allow research to be done on juries and trends in juries and how they come to their decisions?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. My final set of questions is for Ronnie Renucci. You have probably seen some of the exchanges in the Official Report of this committee in relation to the three verdicts, including last week’s evidence from Joe Duffy and Rape Crisis Scotland. In your opening remarks, you talked about what the Crown had to prove. Do you think that there has been enough discussion about how the judge charges the jury, if you like? Rather than debating the cold, clinical aspects of removing a verdict, would it be more useful to discuss what the jury is actually asked to do when it is deciding on a conviction?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

But that is what the provisions are.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 13 December 2023

Pauline McNeill

But the Crown is not satisfied with that.