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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 April 2025
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Displaying 1741 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Good morning. I confess that I am still trying to get my head around how it all works, so forgive me if I get some things wrong. My first question is about your role in relation to allegations of criminality by police officers. I am familiar with a number of cases that have taken two years or longer. In some cases, officers have been found not guilty and then faced further proceedings from Police Scotland in relation to the conduct aspect of it. It seems grossly unfair, either way, that it takes that length of time. You will find that many organisations will say the same. The police officers are suspended during that period, so Police Scotland does not get the benefit of having those officers until the case is completed. I want to understand the role of the PIRC in relation to, for example, assaults against prisoners, which I think is a more common one. Could you help me to understand that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

If I understand the submission correctly, it says that there should be no change to the current arrangements. Is that correct? It says that

“It would ... be incongruous to suggest that in order to allow proceedings to continue in respect of an officer who resigns or retires in advance of any gross misconduct hearing”,

additional assessment and determination by the PIRC would be required, because that would

“usurp the powers”

of the deputy chief constable. My understanding is that Elish Angiolini does not say anything about that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

You say that, except in exceptional circumstances, the allegation should be dealt with within 12 months if it is “proportionate” to do so. Is that right?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you—that is helpful. You say in your submission that the Angiolini report is silent on the question of who should decide whether an allegation amounts to gross misconduct. Under the current regulations, that is done by the deputy chief constable designate. Can you speak to that point?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

You can then make a decision at that point about whether there is sufficiency of evidence, and, if you think that there might be—

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Right—I understand.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you. Recommendation 46 of the review is:

“The ability to report directly to the Criminal Allegations Against Police Division of COPFS a complaint of a crime by a police officer should be much better publicised and made more accessible to the public by COPFS”.

I wonder why you thought that that was the case—that a complaint should be widely publicised? Why is that or, rather, what was meant by that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

I understand. That is helpful.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

That is really interesting and helpful, because we thought that there might be a legal reason for that. Now that we know that there is not, we can pursue that.

I want to keep using an example—a simple example. On the face of it, if a police officer is accused of assault, that is a criminal case that may go to court, and the court may find the officer not guilty.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

The PIRC has said that it is largely meeting those targets but that you can take up to six months.