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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 1239 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Okay. I will ask you about the bits of the bill that you do not support. Is that because you think that it works better to have a joint role between the PIRC and HMICS?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

It would have been pursued as a criminal matter.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

But there is gross misconduct that is not criminal.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

That is my point: there will be cases of gross misconduct that are not criminal and the intention is that there will be provision for former officers to be pursued for up to 12 months after leaving the police. An officer who is charged with gross misconduct might want to appeal the decision, and they have that right. I am interested in the timescales in relation to former officers and whether 12 months is fair, given that there would then be proceedings. I am not talking about criminal cases; I am talking about gross misconduct.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

What about fairness for the officer and their right to defend themselves?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

So you would have an open-ended time limit.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

You do not think that there should be a time limit at all.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

Good morning. I want to explore the issue of pursuing police officers for gross misconduct within a period of 12 months after they have resigned.

In answer to one of my colleagues, you cited the case of Wayne Couzens. However, the issue with that case was that his previous conduct had not been picked up during the recruitment and vetting procedures, and that seems to be the major take-home message from such a case. That seems to indicate that having the 12-month period in that case would not have helped to resolve anything. I know that that was a very unusual and dreadful example but it is the one that you used.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

That makes sense. Thank you.

My final question might be more difficult to answer. We are wrestling with who does what and the complexities of the interactions between different authorities. The bill’s whole purpose is to simplify the system for the public, but what differences will the public see as a result? Are some parts of it worth highlighting to the public?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Pauline McNeill

It is interesting that you have chosen that. From the start of our consideration of the bill, I have always seen it as something that we should have, because it should be enshrined. I presume that police officers are trained in such duties and that they are covered in recruitment processes. I have to say that I am unaware of any particular issues involving police officers not investigating; I have just seen the provision as something that we should have on the statute book. What you have said implies that you have had some problems with police officers, and I have never heard that.