Chamber and committees

I thank Jamie Greene and Collette Stevenson for their amendments, which are critical. They all align with the committee’s stage 1 report, in which we all expressed a lot of concerns about the bill.

On Jamie Greene’s amendments 129 and 90, the biggest weakness in the bill for me is the licensing scheme and the lack of detail on it, given that a lot will be done through statutory instruments. That seems to warrant a review of the scheme.

I was concerned about the letter from the British Firework Association that Jamie Greene referred to and which we got only a couple of days ago. I presume that the minister has had the opportunity to read it, but it says:

“In respect of the licensing requirements, the Minister stated that a delivery driver would have a legal obligation to check for a licence, as they do with other age restricted products. Delivery drivers have a duty to check for age verification on age restricted products, not a licence. Notwithstanding this, the way to circumvent this (and we see already) is to send the product in plain packaging.”

It also says:

“for the record, the Minister states that Fireworks can only be delivered by specialist couriers. This is incorrect, fireworks (under ADR regulations) can be delivered in limited quantities (up to 500kg ... )”.

That alludes to the knock-on effect of people not using the licensing scheme. We do not know yet whether people will see the scheme as onerous or not, and that is where the whole debate about the black market comes in. It all ties together.

Whether the issue can be tied up at stage 3 with amendments on a review of the legislation, I do not know. For me, a specific review of the licensing scheme is important, given my concerns about whether such a scheme is the best way of controlling fireworks. I would like to hear from the minister, but I welcome and intend to vote for both pairs of amendments.

The most important point is that people should understand on which days they can use fireworks and on which days they cannot. I am less concerned about the choosing of festivals. I might need to be more informed about this, but I have attended many Eid celebrations and none involved fireworks. Personally, I did not see that that is the division that the minister is choosing. If it is, there will be more problems.

My primary concern relates to the point that the 57 days can be added to, and I agree with Jamie Greene in that regard. If ministers felt that they had to add other periods, the number of days would expand beyond 57, which would somewhat undermine the response to the concerns that the public might have about the days on which fireworks can be set off.

I know that we will have a discussion about information, but it is important that someone at home who hears fireworks going off knows whether they can lift the phone because it is an offence. We need to tie things together so that people know when they are entitled to phone the police to say, “Fireworks are going off on a day on which that is not permitted—please take action.” It is important that that is addressed so that this can work.

My biggest concern is that, if the 57 days become 67 days, we will get to a place where fireworks will be permitted for a substantial part of the year.

I would have thought that there will have been organised displays for a lot of the festivals and dates that have been mentioned. I have been to Diwali and Vaisakhi displays, and they tend to be organised. In my mind, organised displays should be encouraged for larger groups. I do not see that the bill’s purpose is to try to regulate what religious organisations or communities such as the Chinese community are doing. I do not think that that is what the bill was designed to do, and the discussion is getting a bit confusing at times. I will leave it there.

I am listening carefully to everything that you are saying. I am trying to formulate an opinion that makes sense to me, and I want to probe the issue of why we would permit members of the public to let off fireworks on 10 November. Given that bonfire night is on 5 November, does that proposal make sense? Are we not encouraging people to think, “Oh, there’s a big period when you can set off fireworks legally”? We all agree that the setting off of fireworks causes a certain nuisance to communities. I totally acknowledge your point about the need to strike a balance between reducing the negative effects and allowing people to enjoy fireworks—I am with you on that—but I think that the period when they can be used seems really long.

I welcome what the minister has just said about being willing to work with me at stage 3. I am genuinely pleased about that, because I want to outline why it is necessary to have something about the issue in the bill.

I acknowledge that it is for every local authority to decide individually on the application of a firework control zone as issues arise, but I would have thought that every local authority also has the duty to provide information so that everyone is clear about when a control zone is being applied. Local authorities already do lots of things to give information to the public—for example, they give information about bin collections. I am not suggesting that that is how prescriptive we would want to be, but such information helps a lot of people, particularly if they are not online. I think that the minister has acknowledged that.

There should be some reference to the issue in the bill to ensure that we cover all of that. As Jamie Greene rightly said, it is very important that people know about the application of a firework control zone.

Firework control zones are a critical and very useful part of the bill. I have spoken about some of the issues in my local area in Glasgow, where fireworks are a very serious issue. I hope that Glasgow City Council will use the powers to apply firework control zones in places such as Pollokshields. The zones are an extremely useful aspect of the bill but, in fairness, it is important that those who live in a zone are absolutely crystal clear. I acknowledge that the minister said that there will be some co-design.

I am sure the minister will appreciate that the reason for lodging the amendments was to give some variety. Amendment 6 says that, if a designated area is amended or revoked, the public should be made aware of that. Amendment 7 looks for clarity for people who live and work in the area. I appreciate that amendment 8 is much more extensive; its approach is my preferred one. It says that the boundaries of zones, the date from which the designation is to have effect, and the date on which the designation ceases to have effect should be stated.

It is also important that the public are aware of the offence. We need to be clear with local authorities. They must tell people who reside in those areas that it is an offence to let off a firework in the same way that it would be an offence to let a firework off if that is not on a designated date.

I welcome what has been said, and I intend not to move my amendments on that basis.

In response to Rona Mackay, I note that, in my amendments, I was seeking to probe the need to have 57 days and to reduce that to include only what I see as the seasons of fireworks. I have a similar concern in that, whatever days we choose by regulation, we could end up with even more days, which would be of concern to everyone.

I have a question for Jamie Greene, specifically about the emergency workers legislation and not about any other legislation. I can sometimes see the need for legislation that might be symbolic or send a message. We have a huge problem and I am sympathetic to that. Are you concerned that the courts would not treat that as an aggravating factor at the moment? Are you concerned that a sheriff looking at the circumstances would not, of their own volition, see that there are aggravating factors or add an additional element to the sentence because of the nature of the problem?

I talked about the licensing scheme, which Jamie Greene’s amendment 90 refers to.

I agree 100 per cent.

To continue the debate that Jamie Greene has begun, it is important to be clear about what we are attempting to do. I make it clear that my amendments in the group are probing amendments, for that reason; I want to hear all the arguments.

The minister made a fair point when she said that a lot of the requirements around dates are already in existence. To be honest, however, I am not sure that members of the public understand that those are the dates on which fireworks are permitted and that some additional dates have been provided. I am happy to be contradicted if I have misunderstood this but, in my mind, bonfire season is in November, when you expect to hear fireworks going off in people’s back gardens more than at any other time of the year.

Even if the dates are in previous legislation, we should debate why the period in which fireworks are permitted is from 27 October to 12 November, which is quite a long period. People might be concerned about the social aspect of fireworks going off in people’s back gardens and the nuisance that it causes. People also want to set off fireworks at new year, so why is one of the dates 26 December, which is not new year? I am just probing the issue. I know that those are the existing dates, but what is the logic of that?

I will take a slightly different tack from the one that Jamie Greene has taken. My understanding is that the dates have been chosen not necessarily to capture all religious festivals but to capture festivals, whether they are religious or not, that have a traditional firework element to them. I am happy to be more informed on what those festivals are. I am aware that the minister was asked in Parliament why Eid is not included, and I felt satisfied with her answer. I would be concerned if Eid was included, because there is more than one Eid and the dates move. Given that the dates of other festivals also move, we can see why we need to debate the issue. How will the public understand on which dates setting off fireworks is an offence and on which dates it is not?

On the basis that I think that the minister said that the issue is covered in the bill, I will not move amendment 5.

Amendment 5 not moved.

Section 24—Compensation for specialist firework businesses affected by section 22